Use Rope Useless?

[Steverooo]

So what's the DC of tieing a one-handed bowline around one's waist while falling into a pit of spikes? And assuming you make the check, how much damage do you take?

I'd give it 24 hours and see how many PDF pubs contact you now that you've done "the research" already. What you have, a couple of hours, and some clip art of rope could be a big seller if they use a thesaurus to gussy up the knot names, color the clip art, and unfocus the image enough to make it look "magical"...

Heh! And I assume you two are being facetious!

Mark: I'm sure one could do a .PDF on this... What I am NOT sure about is that anyone would want to BUY it! As I said, does it really add anything to the game?

I think most people will be unwilling to add so much knot-lore to their games, simply for the sake of "realism" or versimilitude... But okay, I'll give it 24 hours! (I won't be holding my breath, though!)

 

[DungeonMaster]

I've seen the use rope skill used in just about every game I've run. I guess it depends a lot on the terrain and the structure of the dungeon.
I've had players fall down pits to another level and then have to tie themselves to a rope lowered quickly. Sure you can take 20 but when you hear something moving down the tunnel and you have 2 hp...

I agree it probably could be folded into another skill however. Maybe in 4th edition.

 

[The Shaman]

I like Use Rope.

In my experience very few PCs take it - but I guarantee that my NPC gaolers have it maxed! Skills aren't JUST for PCs, you know...

 

[Saeviomagy]

To be honest, I don't think that the knots that I know how to tie are sufficient to justify the existence of a discrete skill.

I could potentially see a use for tying knots in doing unusual things (like time-delay release knots, or knots complex enough to use as a lock etc), but frankly I think that each of those would be under a different skill (craft trapmaking, craft locksmith etc).

As to in-game? Use rope opposes escape artist when tying up prisoners. You should always take 20 to do so. That means that the basic manacles are the equivalent of a dex 0 character taking 20 to tie someone up. If you just want to tie someone up and leave them, you need a better use rope skill.

But honestly - how often do you ever want to just tie someone up and leave them??

Scrap the skill and bundle it with crafts, professions and other appropriate skills (untie a locking knot? open locks).

 

[Gez]

I merged Use Rope with Survival.

And Profession: Sailor gives a +2 synergy bonus on Survival checks for using ropes, predicting weather, and intuiting direction from the stars.

 

[The Shaman]

To be honest, I don't think that the knots that I know how to tie are sufficient to justify the existence of a discrete skill.

In my games Use Rope is more than tying knots.

It's building a z-rig to pull raft across a river or move a heavy boulder (successful check allows +4 to STR check), it's rigging a traverse over a deep pit or slot canyon (successful check allows +4 to DEX check to cross), it's securing a prisoner (opposed check with Escape Artist), it's building a make-shift corral to keep stock penned (skill synergy with Handle Animal), it's assembling a basket (skill snyergy with appropriate Craft skills)...

 

[Davelozzi]

Yep, we never use it. I definately think it should be folded in with some other skill.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Agreed.

 

[Saeviomagy]

In my games Use Rope is more than tying knots.

It's building a z-rig to pull raft across a river or move a heavy boulder (successful check allows +4 to STR check),

Sure. Although I'd probably just apply a flat multiplyer to someone's drag weight.

it's rigging a traverse over a deep pit or slot canyon (successful check allows +4 to DEX check to cross)

What dex check? Sounds like a balance check or a climb check, depending on whether you walk or hang (or a jump check if it's narrow enough). And either way securing a safety line is a snap when you take 20 on it, and I don't mean snap in the bad way either.

it's securing a prisoner (opposed check with Escape Artist),

Is there an echo in here? I'm sure I already said something along the lines of "yeah, that's basically all it's good for"

it's building a make-shift corral to keep stock penned (skill synergy with Handle Animal), it's assembling a basket (skill snyergy with appropriate Craft skills)...

So - it's basically not much more than a roleplaying skill then? When someone starts talking about a skill giving minor benefits to other skills, and that being it's only real benefit, I start seeing the name of the skill in parenthesis after craft, profession or perform.

Lets look at some other skills:
Disable device. You disable a device. Any device. Including one that involves rope.
Escape artist. You escape stuff. Any stuff, including rope.
Climb. You climb stuff, including rope.
Balance. You balance on stuff, including rope.
Appraise. You appraise stuff. Including rope.
Handle animal. You can order and control animals. Even if there's rope involved.
Open lock. You can open a lock, even if it's made of or involves rope.
Jump. You can jump. If you want, you can jump rope.
Perform. If you chose, you could even do some fancy performance involving rope.
Ride. See handle animal. Yes, even when there's rope about.
Profession(sailor). You do a bunch of stuff to do with being shipboard. I can't imagine that there's no rope involved.
Knowledge(dungeoneering). Includes spelunking. Yes with rope.
Search. Did I hear someone lost their rope?

Use rope. You do stuff with rope. Unless it's on one the above skill lists (except probably knowledge and profession) in which case you need that skill either instead or as well.

A little limited, isn't it?

For most of your examples, I don't think this is something that's difficult enough to warrant skill ranks. To put it mildly, if I can throw together a scheme for doing something in 5 minutes flat, I think that's the sort of thing that a character with a good intelligence and a take 10 can do with confidence. As a guideline, a character with 14 intelligence can reliably create a longbow without having any training as a bowyer. If you can come up with something rope-related that's significantly more complex than that, then there might actually be call for a skill. If what you came up with is an in-game situation, then use rope graduates to being more than just a craft skill. If it's actually a common occurence, then use rope gets to be a full-blown skill instead of being subsumed within other more general skills.

 

[RSKennan]

And you can break any skill down into this type of minutae. Get a professional gambler on here, and I'm sure he can explain why, in exacting detail, inuendo and bluff should be different skills. But that still doesn't explain why it would enhance the game.

Hell, I was a commercial fisherman, and I don't think it needs to be its own skill. A knot isn't that extraordinary a thing. It's like juggling; anyone with any kind of determination can learn a given knot in at most a week. Unlike languages, for instance. IMHO, some of the skill priorities in D&D are out of whack.

Other than in very specific professions, Use rope really doesn't deserve the weight that D&D gives it. I think I'll suggest steverooo's solution for any groups I'm part of, and make "obscure knots/rope lore" into a knowledge skill; suitable for experts with appropriate professions.

Edit: even though I focus on knots above, I don't think other uses of rope need their own skill either. Rope is a material and a tool; you don't see a "use heavy implement to drive a nail" skill do you? Hyperbole sure, but those skill points are too valuable to spend on such a specific skill, unless you have a very particular character concept in mind.

Second edit: Got back from a long road trip-mistakenly typed "Storyteller" when I meant "steverooo" .