Useless spells because of durations

[Jeff Wilder]

But because it contains useful information, it's not irrelevant. Someone who skips reading part of the spell description because they assume it's going to be irrelevant before they read it is only skimming the spell.

It is called the "Aura Power Table"! How do you not get that? You just admitted that one would consult the "Aura Power Table" to, naturally enough, determine an aura's power. It is perfectly reasonable and correct to assume that if one has no interest in "aura power," one does not need to consult the "Aura Power Table."

And if one does not consult the "Aura Power Table," one quite reasonably concludes that non-evil undead do not register under detect evil. That conclusion is false, but it is absolutely reasonable. And the reason it is both reasonable and false is that the spell is written in an extremely unclear manner.

Which is all that I have been saying from the beginning.

 

[sfedi]

wilder jw, please cool down.
I totally agree with you, but we don't have te be so angry about it.

Having said that, note that you COULD explain/rationalize the flaw in the Detect Evil spell: Since DE detects evil, and undead are made of negative energy, no matter what alignment they are, they are detected.

Although the spell name would still be poor...

 

[Jeff Wilder]

It's not a poorly constucted spell, but it might be a poorly constructed spell description...

In other words, it's not "perfectly clear."

I'm not quite sure why you can't see that Hyp is no more wrong than you are. You, and others, fell it's hard to understand. Hyp and I feel it isn't.

And I can't quite see why you don't understand that when it comes to whether a rule is "perfectly clear," the fact that 50 percent of people read it and get it immediately is irrelevant. If it's "perfectly clear," then nearly everyone reading the rule gets it immediately.

That is demonstrably not the case. WotC actually changed aspects of the rules precisely because the spell was not "perfectly clear." (Their changes didn't make it "perfectly clear," either, but the changes are still evidence that they understood there was a problem.)

That's a simple amtter of opinion, and getting upset over it isn't going to change the fact that people's opinions exist.

And the fact that some people have opinions doesn't change the fact that their opinions are simply wrong.

 

[Apuglisi]

Sorry..I dont want to be rude but I thought this thread was about spells that seemed useless because of the duration they have and not bout how a spell is written, how people understands it, etc...

I can see both points of views and no matter how much more you argue, the thing will remain the same because as it was said before it is a matter of oppinions...

Could we go back to the thread idea when it was created? I am quite interested about that...and would like to read your oppinions about how you deal with those spells that seem to not be usefull because of their short duration.

Thanx

 

[Jeff Wilder]

wilder jw, please cool down.
I totally agree with you, but we don't have te be so angry about it.

It's frustration, not anger, but you're right. It's just that very little frustrates me more than a supposed "expert" who is proven wrong and simply cannot admit it.

 

[Scion]

Having said that, note that you COULD explain/rationalize the flaw in the Detect Evil spell: Since DE detects evil, and undead are made of negative energy, no matter what alignment they are, they are detected.

Not all undead are powered by negative energy (a duck by any other name..) and negative energy isnt evil anyway (not the plane, nor even a great many uses of its energy).

I dont think that detect evil should detect undead. Isnt that what detect undead is for?

Crazy marketing schemes making everyone think that undead are all evil, bah

Unintelligent things with alignments, bah. Might as well say the spam sandwhich you are going to eat is evil. Or the grass on the side of the road. Or the air you are breathing. Or animals in general. Or just about anything that simply cannot be evil because it cannot make choices. Simple insanity!

 

[Hypersmurf]

You just admitted that one would consult the "Aura Power Table" to, naturally enough, determine an aura's power.

Certainly. If you want to determine an aura's power, you read the Aura Power Table.

If you want to know what Detect Evil detects, you read Detect Evil. Which includes the Aura Power Table.

-Hyp.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

If you want to know what Detect Evil detects, you read Detect Evil. Which includes the Aura Power Table.

So you disagree completely that "it is perfectly reasonable and correct to assume that if one has no interest in 'aura power,' one does not need to consult the 'Aura Power Table'"? (I can't be positive that you disagree, since you decided to snip the quote rather than respond to it.)

In your view, a user of the spell is responsible for referencing a table, the title of which clearly indicates it contains information for which the user has no need? In your view, that's "perfectly clear"?

In your view, the fact that the "Aura Power Table" doesn't just give out the power of auras, but actually indicates the existence of auras isn't, even a little bit, less than "perfectly clear"?

It isn't a tiny bit unclear that in order to determine whether there's an "evil aura," someone has to refer to a table clearly named for determining the power of an evil aura?

Not even the tiniest bit unclear?

Really?

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I dont think that detect evil should detect undead. Isnt that what detect undead is for?

Exactly. (Except, of course for evil undead.)

Unintelligent things with alignments, bah.

Exactly. It's a stupid kludge intended to fix a stupidly written spell.

 

[Hypersmurf]

In my view, once you have read the entire spell, the effects of that spell are unambiguous.

When there's no ambiguity, the spell is clear.

-Hyp.