Using 3rd party stuff.

[Lord Mhoram]

To be honest I've used more third party than WOTC.

It started back in the early days of 3rd, and I worked at a game shop and got my stuff in store credit at cost. I bough most d20 books that came out that even interested me; this went on a couple of years into 3.5. I don't used published settings, and WOTC didn't put out enough sourcebooks for what I wanted - I wanted feats, prestige classes, monsters ect.

I ended up using the third party stuff, because it was what was there, and I liked the creativity. Now, I have much more WoTC but I still use many many third party bits because of comfort and familiarity.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Hm. OK.

There are simply too many excellent products out there, some of which I am very glad to own. Anyway, I'll just try highlighting a few points.

Psionics: I'll agree with Bacris' observation. . . and go one further, by mentioning Dreamscarred Press, funnily enough. Untapped Potential is what Complete Psionic could should have been.

Classes: Several things I'd rather not do without, like the Holy Warrior's Handbook. Paladin? No thanks. I'll just build my own, if you don't mind.

Combat: Lots of ways to make combat more fun and interesting for pretty much all characters (e.g., Book of Iron Might, Torn Asunder: Critical Hits).

Magic: Again, a wealth of options here. Just for one example, the Complete Book of Eldritch Might , which gives me a Bard I actually like, plenty of nifty spells and PrCs, and cool stuff besides.

Monsters: Ah, where to begin. Book of Fiends? Denizens of Avadnu? Tome of Horrors? Advanced Bestiary? Yep. I <3 these books.

Deities & Cosmology: Book of the Righteous, for instance, has no equal. . . and well, no competitors either, for that matter.

Settings: Heh. A world of d20 fantasy with only FR, GH and Eberron? Blech. Check out all the fantastic options here, for direct usage, or just mining for things to help with one's own worldbuilding/-altering efforts.

Entire Systems: Hm. This might not be relevant to the question, but if so. . . well, there's a range of alternatives here, that cater to different tastes and preferences in style / speed / what have you. Example: True20.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Why do you use non-WOTC stuff? If you do, of course.

I am frequently able to locate a better third-party product that covers a facet I am interested in than the official WotC product. The third-party product is often out earlier, as well. (Ex. Frost & Fur vs. Frostburn.)

I don't care for the core assumptions of 3rd Edition, and several third-party sourcebooks have been useful in moving my game away from those assumptions. From Stone to Steel. The Complete Guild to the Fey (required some tweaking). Ravenloft. The Tomb of Horrors I, II, and III. Dynasties & Demogogues. The Medieval Player's Handbook. Wildscape, Cityscape, and Dungeonscape. Nyambe.

There's a lot of really good, really useful third-party material out there. Even some things that are not normally considered "great" can yeild some very valuable material and/or insights if you are willing to put in a bit of work.


RC

 

[Crothian]

This is not to start an argument, but I am honestly curious

Why do you use non-WOTC stuff? If you do, of course.

Because some of it is better then what Wizards does. Some of it is more creative and they cover lots of areas that Wizards never has.

 

[mcrow]

For me, I mostly use WotC products when playing/Gming D&D. The books they put out , as a whole, are excellent quality. On the rare occaison that a WotC product does not suit may purposes, I may pick up a 3rd party book but most often I just homebrew.

It's complete different story for d20 modern. WotC hasn't published as much for modern, though what they have published is quite good. For modern I use a lot of 3rd party stuff, becuase there are some really good small press books out there.

 

[pawsplay]

A lot of it is more writerly, and hence, more useful as inspiration, as well as an enjoyable read.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

First, I generally find the best 3rd party material to be a) a better value in terms of usable content/$ and b) better design.

Of late, WotC has put out some really, really good and interesting design work (like the Book of Nine Swords and the warlock class) and fixed some of its worst excesses (by nerfing polymorph, for example), but for years this was not the case. 3.0 was an amazing leap from its predecessors, but the next WotC book (in the D&D line) that did a good job of advancing the d20 system was the Expanded Psionics Handbook!

Conceptually, WotC *still* doesn't produce much that I like; the mechanics they use to translate bog standard fantasy into a playable form have gotten better, but the setting, not so much.

By contrast, even in 3.0 you had interesting settings like Nyambe and the Iron Kingdoms (via the Witchfire Trilogy and Monsternomicon), and Arcana Unearthed as a very different take on fantasy. Since d20 Modern, 3.5 and the spread of OGL, you have Conan the RPG, DragonMech, a variety of d20 western, horror and steampunk games, etc. Without third party publishers, I would be back in the dark days of 2e, having to cobble together voluminous house rules just to cover the basics of the kind of settings I care to game in.

During the same span, third party publishers put out Arcana Unearthed/Evolved and Iron Heroes (Malhavoc Press), the Blood and x line - particularly Blood and Fists - (RPG Objects), Mutants and Masterminds and True20 (Green Ronin) and many other products that moved the state of the game forward on a systemic level. The best new WotC mechanics are still playing catchup with these (although WotC's Star Wars Saga looks like it may set a new bar).

Finally, I find most of the third party books I buy are a much better value. Arcana Evolved, for example, is about the price of a Complete book and a Races book combined. Yet you get quadruple the classes you would in the Complete book and triple the races you would in the Races book (with racial classes as an additional class option).

 

[Arnwyn]

So I wonder, what does 3rd party add to you game? How does it make your experience better?

Because I actually get a large variety of adventures.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

So I wonder, what does 3rd party add to you game? How does it make your experience better?

A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe is a fantastic resource for running a "medieval" game. Monte Cook says: "If you're a DM and running a D&D game, you should have this book. Period." It does what no WotC or TSR product does and what WotC is never likely to equal. It's also available in PDF, even in Japan.

Goodman Games modules capture what I like about the good old (1E ) days with updated rules and less-blatant lack of logic (usually). They also produce more modules in a quarter than WotC produces in a year. July will see the publication of the 47th Dungeon Crawl Classic, which range from coastal and ocean-going adventures, to urban adventures to deserts and beyond.

Freeport and Redhurst are great settings ... that WotC didn't produce and are equal-or-better to anything that they have. Also available in PDF.

Advanced Bestiary is a book of a type that WotC hasn't produced, for whatever reason, and makes every book at they have better. Also available in PDF.

Last, but not least among my major off-brand purchases/uses, Ptolus is a mega-setting/module created by the author of the DMG, playtested by seemingly half of WotC and Paizo and supported with supplements, modules and more. It might as well be WotC-made, except that it's also far more deluxe than anything WotC is ever likely to produce, since they seem to prefer their big-ticket items to be things like chess sets, for some reason. Also available in PDF.

Buying only WotC is like only getting your Italian food at Olive Garden and asking why anyone would go anywhere else. The answer, of course, is that while Olive Garden may be your favorite, it's hardly the first and last word in what else is available out there, and many people's tastes may differ. But hey, unlimited salad and breadsticks!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

For people who have never ventured into D20 material, I recommend the Year's Best D20 book from Malhavoc Press. It's a Monte-picked compilation of the best base classes, PrCs, spells, monsters, magic items and a bit of other stuff from 2004 (the only year Monte did this project). It's a great sampler of what else is out there and it lists where it pulls from.

The monster section in particular is great, with pulls from that year's Tome of Horrors and Denizens of Avadinu (spelling?).

Also available in PDF.