D&D 5E (2024) Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024

[Charlaquin]

the Ready action does not give me a Reaction, I already had one.

It gives you a way to use your Reaction that you wouldn’t otherwise have. Forgive my slight error in phrasing.

I also still use the Magic action because my spell slot is getting used up even when the condition does not trigger, so the spell slot consumption happens before and independently of the Reaction happening.

The spell slot (or in the case being discussed, the staff charge) gets used up because that’s part of the effect specified by the Ready Action.

All Ready does is delay the release of the spell effect, not of the spell casting

No, what Ready does is allows you to specify another Action (or movement up to your speed) that it then allows you to use as a Reaction in response to a specific trigger. Very explicitly so, I can quote the text for you if you’d like. In the specific case of casting a spell, you also have to cast the spell (which is to say, perform its verbal, somatic, and material components and spend the necessary resources) at the time that you take the Ready action, and maintain concentration until the specified trigger occurs.

 

[ECMO3]

There......is.......no.......spellcasting in the reaction. None. So according to your interpretation, you are literally taking no action as your action.

You are taking Ready as your action. Ready is one of the "main actions in the game" according to the PHB. When you ready a spell you take the Ready Action. That is your action on your turn.

There's no spellcasting happening as the Magic Action, and no spellcasting as the Ready Action. No spellcasting is happening when the trigger happens.

The spell casting is happening on your turn when you take the Ready Action to "ready a spell". That is 100% clear in the rules glossary.

I would say that casting is part of the Ready Action, but it is semantics and you could argue the casting is not part of any action all, just like pulling the material component out of the pouch is not part of an action. What is clear though is if you ready a spell you cast the spell on your turn and you do not take the Magic Action (or any action other than Ready) on your turn.

 

[Charlaquin]

which in other words is a delay of the action. Had you not delayed it into your reaction, you would have taken it right now, not later (assuming the trigger is met)


an action that does nothing in and of itself, but allows the character to delay another action. It being listed under actions does not make it an action, it just groups it with actions it relies upon to function

“Delay” is not a term that appears anywhere in the text of the Ready action, and thinking of it in those terms is what is leading you to misunderstand how this specific interaction works. Ready is not a special way to perform an action that delays it until a later time, it’s a unique Action with a unique entry in the Actions list and unique rules for resolution. The effect of this action is to give you a way to use your Reaction that you would not otherwise be able to use it for. Specifically, to move up to your Speed or perform something that would normally require a different Action on your turn to do. There are special rules for using this to cast a spell, which involve performing the necessary spell components and expending the necessary resources for the spell, and maintaining concentration until the specified trigger occurs.

 

[Charlaquin]

Impossible. The spell is 100% cast on your turn and there's nothing more to do with spellcasting during the reaction. Nada. Nil. None. All you do is release the energy of the spell that was 100% cast DURING YOUR TURN.

That's why you lose the spell if the trigger doesn't happen. The spell has been fully cast.

Yes, correct. And all of this is part of the effects specified by the Ready Action.

So now your argument is that the Magic Action doesn't actually cast any spell? Because no spell is cast as the reaction.

The Magic Action allows you to cast a spell with a casting time of 1 Action or use a magic item. It is not the only way to do so, however. Another way to do so is to use the Ready Action - a distinct Action with its own entry in the list of Actions and its own rules for resolution. Rules which include casting the spell on your turn, and then holding the spell until a later trigger.

 

[Mort]

That is not the normal it is refering to IMO. I think it has to do with what you need to actually cast the spell, not the action - You must have a free hand if you have Somatic components, you must have material components, you can't be silenced if it has verbal components, you have to meet the requirements for the spell; for example if I want to Ready Dissonant Whispers I need to be able to see the target.

Except when I was looking at the Magic section and the casting time:

Casting Time​

Most spells require the Magic action to cast, but some spells require a Bonus Action, a Reaction, or 1 minute or more. A spell’s Casting Time entry specifies which of those is required.

You'll note ready is not listed. This leads me to ready just being an extension of using the magic action, but not explicitly stated as so. Is it a concrete iron clad reading? No, but it makes more sense, to me, than to allow ready to break a rule set for the magic action without explicitly saying it can.

 

[Charlaquin]

There......is.......no.......spellcasting in the reaction. None.

Agreed.

So according to your interpretation, you are literally taking no action as your action.

No, you’re taking the Ready Action. The effects of the Ready Action include casting a spell with a casting time of 1 Action. Much like the effects of the Magic Action include casting a spell with a casting time of 1 Action. They are two different Actions that both include among the things they allow you to do, casting a spell with a casting time of 1 Action.

There's no spellcasting happening as the Magic Action, and no spellcasting as the Ready Action.

No, you are absolutely casting the spell as part of the Ready Action. Its effects explicitly say so. You “cast the spell as normal.”

No spellcasting is happening when the trigger happens.

Correct.

 

[ECMO3]

Except when I was looking at the Magic section and the casting time:

Casting Time​

Most spells require the Magic action to cast, but some spells require a Bonus Action, a Reaction, or 1 minute or more. A spell’s Casting Time entry specifies which of those is required.

You'll note ready is not listed. This leads me to ready just being an extension of using the magic action, but not explicitly stated as so. Is it a concrete iron clad reading? No, but it makes more sense, to me, than to allow ready to break a rule set for the magic action without explicitly saying it can.

The text for the Glamour subclass says they can cast Command as a Bonus Action. The Sorcerer Quicken Spell again allows a Sorcerer to use a Bonus Action to cast a spell with a casting time of 1 Action. The text for the Eldritch Knight says they can use the Attack action to cast spells with a casting time of 1 action and the attack action is not listed here.

Similarly to these, the Ready action states you can ready a spell with a casting time of 1 action. The verbiage it uses in Ready Action in the rules glossary is similar to what is used in the Eldritch Knight carveout to use an attack action. And like the examples above it does not use the term "Magic Action" at all when referring to casting a spell with a casting time of 1 action.

 

[Maxperson]

Yes, correct. And all of this is part of the effects specified by the Ready Action.

The Magic Action allows you to cast a spell with a casting time of 1 Action or use a magic item. It is not the only way to do so, however. Another way to do so is to use the Ready Action - a distinct Action with its own entry in the list of Actions and its own rules for resolution. Rules which include casting the spell on your turn, and then holding the spell until a later trigger.

The Ready Action REQUIRES a different action to be declared for use at the trigger. You cannot use the Magic Action at the trigger because there is no spellcasting going on.

You are arguing that you are preparing the Ready Action to be used at the Ready Action trigger, and that's not how Ready Action works. You ready to do something else.

Since the Magic Action can't be used at the trigger since there is no spellcasting going on, when does the Magic Action happen?

 

[Charlaquin]

Except when I was looking at the Magic section and the casting time:

Casting Time​

Most spells require the Magic action to cast, but some spells require a Bonus Action, a Reaction, or 1 minute or more. A spell’s Casting Time entry specifies which of those is required.

You'll note ready is not listed. This leads me to ready just being an extension of using the magic action, but not explicitly stated as so. Is it a concrete iron clad reading? No, but it makes more sense, to me, than to allow ready to break a rule set for the magic action without explicitly saying it can.

Under my reading, Ready isnt breaking a rule set for the Magic Action, because it’s a completely different Action, with its own rules for resolution. That these rules overlap with the rules of the Magic action in the specific case of using it to cast a spell is immaterial. You’re not taking the Magic Action when you Ready a spell, you’re taking the Ready Action. Restrictions on the Magic Action don’t apply.

 

[Charlaquin]

Glamour Bard is not listed either, yet the text for the subclass says they can cast Command as a Bonus Action. The text for the Eldritch Knight says they can use the Attack action to cast spells with a casting time of 1 action and the attack action is not listed here.

Similarly to these, the Ready action states you can ready a spell with a casting time of 1 action. The verbiage it uses in Ready Action in the rules glossary is very similar to what is used in the Eldritch Knight carveout to use an attack action. And like both examples above it does not use the term "Magic Action" at all when refering to casting a spell with a casting time of 1 action.

Yeah, this is just specific beating general. Business as usual.