D&D 5E (2024) Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024

[mamba]

I agree. Which means, you aren’t using the Magic action with the second action Action Surge gives you. You’re using it with the Reaction the Ready action gives you.

the Ready action does not give me a Reaction, I already had one.

I also still use the Magic action because my spell slot is getting used up even when the condition does not trigger, so the spell slot consumption happens before and independently of the Reaction happening.

All Ready does is delay the release of the spell effect, not of the spell casting

 

[mamba]

Ready doesn’t delay any action. It allows you to take another action as a Reaction in response to a later trigger.

which in other words is a delay of the action. Had you not delayed it into your reaction, you would have taken it right now, not later (assuming the trigger is met)

It’s literally an Action in and of itself. It’s listed as a discrete Action in the Actions section, and the rules treat it as such.

an action that does nothing in and of itself, but allows the character to delay another action. It being listed under actions does not make it an action, it just groups it with actions it relies upon to function

 

[Maxperson]

This is not true. You absolutely can take the Magic Action as a readied action when the trigger happens off turn.

Impossible. The spell is 100% cast on your turn and there's nothing more to do with spellcasting during the reaction. Nada. Nil. None. All you do is release the energy of the spell that was 100% cast DURING YOUR TURN.

That's why you lose the spell if the trigger doesn't happen. The spell has been fully cast.

Here is the text from actions:

Prepare to take an action in response to a trigger you define.

Here is the text from the rules glossary:

You take the Ready action to wait for a particular circumstance before you act. To do so, you take this action on your turn, which lets you act by taking a Reaction before the start of your next turn.

Nothing in either place states that the Magic Action is different or exempt or that you can't use the Ready Action to prepare a Magic Action in response to a trigger. What it says is you can't cast a spell in this way, but casting a spell is not all that you can do with the Magic Action.

This is part why I am so hard over on this. The rules for casting spells with a ready action are specifically different than using a ready action for doing any other actions, including the Magic Action.

So now your argument is that the Magic Action doesn't actually cast any spell? Because no spell is cast as the reaction.

 

[mamba]

If it wasn’t meant to be a discrete Action, but a special way you could perform an action, it could have been written just after the Actions as a special way to use them instead of among them, as a discrete item in the list.

if it were a discrete action, it would do something discrete instead of delaying another action of your choice… this is going in circles, we will not agree on this

 

[Charlaquin]

It specifically says you cast the spell as normal during your turn.

Right, so that’s when you perform the necessary components and spend the necessary resources

The only normal it can be referring to is the Magic Action.

Except you’ve already used your Action to take the Ready action. Which explicitly requires you to specify an action you will take (in the future) in response to a specific trigger. In this case, the Magic action.

Then it goes on to specifically say that all you do with your reaction is release the energy. You literally can't take the Magic Action as your reaction since you are not casting any spell and the Magic Action requires spellcasting.

The Magic action doesn’t require spellcasting, it allows spellcasting. The Ready Action also allows you to cast a spell, as normal, but you must concentrate on it until a specified trigger occurs, at which time you can release it as a Reaction,

You can only release the energy from the Magic Action you took on your turn.

You didn’t take the Magic Action on your turn, you took the Ready action.

 

[mamba]

Right, so that’s when you perform the necessary components and spend the necessary resources

use up the spell slot, whether because of the Magic action or not…

Except you’ve already used your Action to take the Ready action. Which explicitly requires you to specify an action you will take (in the future) in response to a specific trigger. In this case, the Magic action.

except that during the reaction all you do is release the already stored spell effect, you are not triggering the Magic action at that point because the spell is already cast

 

[ECMO3]

yes, kinda, we are describing the same thing, but with a different emphasis


how so, Ready delays all actions, that is not specific to spells / the Magic action

The verbiage in the rules glossary for "ready a spell"

This specifically calls out different mechanics than exist for spells thanor for any other Readied Actions including using a Ready Action to use the Magic Action for something other than a spell.

that is semantics, Ready delays your actual action until it becomes a reaction, it is not an action in and of itself.

It is an action in and of itself. This is spelled out clearly, it is listed on the table of Actions. From the PHB:

The Action table lists the game’s main actions, which are defined in more detail in the Rules Glossary.

"Ready" is one of the actions listed on the table. So not only is it an action it is one of the "games main actions"

Further in the rules glossary:

"You take the Ready action to wait for a particular circumstance before you act. To do so, you take this action on your turn"

For a sword swing there is no 'wind up' phase during your turn, for a spell there is

No there isn't. If it is an action spell the mechanics on your turn using a Magic Action are the same as using a Sword.

, Of course if the condition is not being met, you also wasted your Attack action or whatever other action you intended to take, that too is not a special case for the Magic action, the Magic action just needs a little more explanation for why you lost the spell slot (which you would not have had you not casted the spell at all)

It is not a special case for the Magic Action, it is a special case for casting a spell. Using Ready to do a Magic Action on a trigger for anything other than casting a spell (and there are lots of things) works exactly like it does for any other action.

Further it is not just the spell slot, it also requires Concentration. I can be concentrating on Protection from Good and Evil and cast Fireball on my turn just fine. I can not be concentrating on Protection from Good and Evil and ready fireball for when the Ghouls come around the corner. I would need to drop concentration to do that.

Finally it states that you "cast the spell" on your turn, that causes other things to happen on your turn, including the 2 spell slot rule if applicable, including counterspell and including any mechanics associated with casting a spell. For example:

1. If my high level Valor Bard readies an action to cast a spell, he gets to make an attack on his turn as a Bonus action through Battle Magic because he cast a spell on his turn.

2. If my Abjuration Wizard readies an Abjuration spell it charges my Ward or if a Divination Wizard readies a Divination spell it replenishes a spell slot

3. If my Glamor Bard redies an Illusion or an Enchantment then I cause a creature to save against Beguiling Magic on my turn, not when the trigger happens.

Those are just three examples off the top of my head. I am sure there is lots more. Those things happen when you cast the spell, which is on your turn when you ready a spell to be cast in response to a trigger off your turn.

So there is a whole lot more going on then just losing the spell slot.

 

[Maxperson]

Right, so that’s when you perform the necessary components and spend the necessary resources

Except you’ve already used your Action to take the Ready action. Which explicitly requires you to specify an action you will take (in the future) in response to a specific trigger. In this case, the Magic action.

The Magic action doesn’t require spellcasting, it allows spellcasting. The Ready Action also allows you to cast a spell, as normal, but you must concentrate on it until a specified trigger occurs, at which time you can release it as a Reaction,

You didn’t take the Magic Action on your turn, you took the Ready action.

There......is.......no.......spellcasting in the reaction. None. So according to your interpretation, you are literally taking no action as your action. There's no spellcasting happening as the Magic Action, and no spellcasting as the Ready Action. No spellcasting is happening when the trigger happens.

 

[Charlaquin]

That says you cast the (1 action only) spell as normal. Normal casting is as a magic action. So it seems quite off (to me) to so easily skirt the restriction imposed on magic actions. But we've been there and in guess no need to keep going around.

You can’t take two Actions simultaneously, and you certainly can’t take an action in response to a trigger before that trigger has actually happened.

Look, it’s very simple. To cast a spell with a casting time of 1 Action, you must take an Action that allows you to cast a spell. Two such actions exist: the Magic Action, whose effects are described under the Magic entry in the Actions section, and the Ready Action, whose effects are described under the Ready entry in the Actions section. Specifically, this Action allows you to declare another Action (or moving up to your speed), and a specific trigger which will allow you to take the specified Action as a Reactuon in response to said trigger. In the specific case of the Magic action, you must perform all necessary spellcasting components (Verbal, Somatic, and/or Material) required by the spell and spend any necessary resources (usually a spell slot, but sometimes a charge from a magic item or a use of a feature granted by your Species, Class, a Feat, or similar) on your turn. The text shorthands this to “cast the spell as normal”. Then, you must concentrate on the spell until the specified trigger occurs, at which time you “release” the spell, and it takes effect.

 

[ECMO3]

The only normal it can be referring to is the Magic Action.\

That is not the normal it is refering to IMO. I think it has to do with what you need to actually cast the spell, not the action - You must have a free hand if you have Somatic components, you must have material components, you can't be silenced if it has verbal components, you have to meet the requirements for the spell; for example if I want to Ready Dissonant Whispers I need to be able to see the target.