D&D 5E (2024) Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024

[TheSword]

Except the idea of "later in the round" doesn't actually exist, all of these actions are supposed to be happening simultaneously, the creatures and characters in combat aren't actually waiting to take their turns, the whole "turn order" is simply a necessary abstraction to keep play from becoming too confusing. In fact, you can't "delay" in 5e rules to act later in the turn even if you wanted to- if my Cleric's initiative count is 20, he can't choose to do nothing on the off chance someone gets hurt later in the round for him to heal. He'll have to wait til his initiative count on the next turn to do that.

Ready doesn't even change your initiative count, it simply allows you to try and be more precise with how your action flows with other actions, but it comes with a cost.

-It's worth noting that this should also be the "aha" moment for understanding why you shouldn't be allowed to take the Magic action for a leveled spell when it's not your turn if you also used a Magic action on your turn to do the same, since it's all happening in the same 6-second combat round. Unfortunately, WotC decided to allow shenanigans like Sneak Attack when it's not your turn, which leads to debates like this (I realize there was pressure from players about this, but they really should have stuck to their guns about the narrative flow of the combat round).

I accept what you’re saying up to a point. Whether it’s a delay to the end of a six second window though It’s still a delay. Speed of casting is still dependent on initiative and spells have to be cast in some form of order right. Otherwise you’d never have reaction spells. The structure of a game has to fit in there somewhere and then commons sense applies.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

It necessitates declaring the action you will take when the trigger occurs. Which to me clearly indicates that you are not taking that action yet at the time you Ready it.

i mean. that just sounds like taking the action with extra steps.

 

[Charlaquin]

i mean. that just sounds like taking the action with extra steps.

You’re taking the Ready action. The Ready action is an action in and of itself, distinct from the Attack, Dash, Disengage, Dodge, Help, Hide, Influence, Magic, Search, Study, and Research actions. In no other instance does performing a task as a Reaction set up with the Ready action count as using the Action you would need to take to perform said task on your turn. There’s no reason it should suddenly do so in this instance. Even if it did, you would be taking the Action in question as a Reaction, not as the Action that the Action Surge feature allows you to take on your turn.

 

[Stalker0]

You’re taking the Ready action. The Ready action is an action in and of itself, distinct from the Attack, Dash, Disengage, Dodge, Help, Hide, Influence, Magic, Search, Study, and Research actions.

Its not THAT distinct though. After all, if I cast a spell with it....I still have to reference the Magic Action to know how to actually do it. I am still ultimately taking the action in question.

If I can't hide in open sight, doesn't mean I can ready a hide action and suddenly get to hide in plain sight.

 

[Maxperson]

People. All the Ready Action does is allow you to use another action which you choose(attack, cast, move, etc.) to happen later. EXCEPT for the Magic Action. That one you specifically have to start on your turn by casting the spell as normal for the Magic Action and then the Magic Action completes when the trigger happens. When the trigger happens you are not using the Ready Action, you are using the main action you picked earlier.

 

[mamba]

That is not true it is an action which you take on your turn. It generally allows you to take another action as a reaction in response to a trigger off turn.

yes, kinda, we are describing the same thing, but with a different emphasis

Spell casting using the readied action uses a specific rule that bypasses this.

how so, Ready delays all actions, that is not specific to spells / the Magic action

There is nothing in the Ready Action which lets you use a second action on your turn.

that is semantics, Ready delays your actual action until it becomes a reaction, it is not an action in and of itself.

For a sword swing there is no 'wind up' phase during your turn, for a spell there is, which is why you cast it as an action on your turn but do not release the effect until the condition is being triggered (and you lose the spell slot if the condition is not met). Of course if the condition is not being met, you also wasted your Attack action or whatever other action you intended to take, that too is not a special case for the Magic action, the Magic action just needs a little more explanation for why you lost the spell slot (which you would not have had you not casted the spell at all)

 

[mamba]

Per the "Ready a spell" rule I must cast the spell on my turn. IF you are saying I must take the Magic Action to cast it then this too would need to happen on my turn.

that is what happens on your turn, you just do not release the effect yet, because you decided to instead wait for a trigger to unleash it

 

[mamba]

That is not the only difference. There is an entire paragraph on readying the spell. In short - you must "cast" the spell and expend the resources on your turn and you must maintain concentration until the trigger occurs and you "release" the spell.

This is fundamentally different.

No, it is the same, in every case it means you wasted an actual action. For the Attack action it means you never attacked and lost the attack, for the Magic action it means you did cast the spell but never released the effect, losing the spell slot. The difference in the fiction is explained in the Ready action.

"First, you decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your Reaction. Then, you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose to move up to your Speed in response to it."

What does the bolded 'action' refer to here, action as in Attack and Magic or just a general 'you do a thing'?

 

[mamba]

Yeah, I’d say that’s an accurate summary.

yeah, can be read that way. Not how I read it or would rule it, but it is ambiguous enough to not be obviously wrong I guess

 

[mamba]

The Ready Action is absolutely an action by itself. That’s why it’s found under the “actions” section and written as a discrete action with its own name

it's there because it has no good other place to be. The Ready action would not do anything if it would not piggy-back on another action which actually does something. The only thing Ready does is delay the actual action so it gets triggered by something rather than used immediately on your turn