D&D 5E (2024) Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024

[TheSword]

Ready action is an action, it is not a delay.



It does not count as the attack action and the ready action itself does not count as an attack, the reaction would count as an attack if the trigger event occurs and it is in fact an attack.

For example:

You can not ready the attack action and then use the light property and attack as a bonus action.

If you ready an attack action as a Berzerker Barbarian, you don't do the extra Frenzy damage and if the trigger event never happens you did not attack and your Rage could end.

If you ready an attack action and use that off turn to grapple it does not count as an attack.

Also ki to this discussion is you do not ready the Magic Action to cast a spell, you ready a spell as per the description in ready action and you are in fact casting the spell.



Exactly. You cast it and it takes effect when you release it upon the trigger event happening. It does not force you to take a Magic Action or any other extra action you would not normally take.

Ready absolutely is a delay. That is literally what it does.
No one is being forced to do anything. You’re using a staff to cast a spell. Getting hung up on what you call that doesn’t really matter.

All that said, we’re going round in circles here. You’ve made your mind up and won’t be persuaded otherwise no matter how many people say it’s suspect or not a good idea to encourage.

As long as your table is having fun. But you have been given a lot of plausible deniability here if it turns round and bites you on the bum. Good luck with it.

I also wouldn’t want other DMs that come to this thread looking for an answer to think that your way is a correct or necessary interpretation of the rules because it is very much disputed.

 

[TheSword]

It’s not just a separate name, it’s an entirely separate listing in the “actions” section of the rules glossary

It’s a unique catch-all action that allows most of the other actions on the list to used out of turn. That’s it. Nothing else. Suggesting that it’s in some sort of special class of Uber action that can mimic other actions without drawbacks is just bizarre.

It’s included in that list because it’s an option. But without the other actions on that list it wouldn’t really
mean much would it?

 

[Charlaquin]

Ready absolutely is a delay. That is literally what it does.
No one is being forced to do anything. You’re using a staff to cast a spell. Getting hung up on what you call that doesn’t really matter.

All that said, we’re going round in circles here. You’ve made your mind up and won’t be persuaded otherwise no matter how many people say it’s suspect or not a good idea to encourage.

As long as your table is having fun. But you have been given a lot of plausible deniability here if it turns round and bites you on the bum. Good luck with it.

I don’t see any reason it would “turn around and bite you in the bum.” It’s a super niche application of the Ready action that you need at least two levels of Fighter and the ability to cast a spell without using a spell slot more than once in the same round to be able to even use, costs your reaction (which could otherwise be used for an opportunity attack or similar) your concentration (which could otherwise be used to maintain an ongoing buff or DoT spell), and for all your trouble you get a chance at casting two spells in a round, if your concentration doesn’t get broken before the trigger comes around. That seems incredibly fair to me. More than fair, it mostly seems like a suboptimal play.

I also wouldn’t want other DMs that come to this thread looking for an answer to think that your way is a correct or necessary interpretation of the rules because it is very much disputed.

No rules interpretation is necessary. It is a reasonable interpretation of the text, and doesn’t seem particularly exploitable. If for whatever reason someone doesn’t like the interpretation though, there’s no reason they couldn’t or shouldn’t rule otherwise.

 

[ECMO3]

You haven’t actually identified any reason why Ready to use a magic item and Magic action to use an item are different in the rules other than the title. If that is the only difference then I hope your can understand why that is an insufficient justification for a lot of people.

They use completely separate action economy, permissibility and mechanics for the effect you are trying to achieve to come to pass. The effect is identical, the mechanics are not.

One requires an action, the other requires an action, a trigger event and a reaction. This is true for any readied action.

If you ready a spell it additionally requires concentration and requires you to cast the spell itself when you take the action instead of when the trigger occurs.

 

[ECMO3]

It’s a unique catch-all action that allows most of the other action on the list to used out of turn. That’s it. Nothing else.

Nothing else except for Readying a spell. That has specific mechanics that are different than any of the actions you can ready including different then readying the Magic Action to do something that requires a Magic Action.

Suggested that it’s in some sort of special class of Uber action that can mimic other actions with drawbacks is just bizarre.

Casting a spell is in a special class because it is specifically addressed in the section on Ready Action. The actions you can ready are not specifically addressed in this fashion. It clearly is a separate class and it uses separate and different mechanics.

It’s included in that list because it’s an option. But without the other actions on that list it wouldn’t really
mean much would it?

Actually it would. If they took out all of the wording for other actions but left in place the wording for readying a spell you could still ready a spell without being able to ready any of those actions and Ready would still be an action itself.

 

[ECMO3]

Ready absolutely is a delay. That is literally what it does.

No it doesn't. The word delay does not appear in the description or in the table. The word in the table is "prepare"

 

[TheSword]

No it doesn't. The word delay does not appear in the description or in the table. The word in the table is "prepare"

Nevertheless it is a delay. That’s it’s called when you cause something to happen later than it would normally happen.

Any way. You do you. Points have been made by all sides. Not interested in a game of “yes it is - no it isn’t - yes it is”.

 

[Charlaquin]

It’s a unique catch-all action that allows most of the other action on the list to used out of turn. That’s it. Nothing else.

It’s not that at all. It’s a discrete action, taking which allows you to set up a trigger condition upon which you can use your Reaction to do something that would otherwise require using a different Action to perform, or move up to your speed. In the special case of a spell, you perform the components and expend the resources on your turn, and concentrate on the spell until the trigger occurs, at which time you can release the spell as a Reaction.

Suggested that it’s in some sort of special class of Uber action that can mimic other actions with drawbacks is just bizarre.

In literally all cases the rules treat it this way. That’s why, for example, attacking with a Reaction you set up with the Ready action doesn’t allow you to make two attacks with the Extra Attack feature, or the Light weapon property, even if the weapon also has the Nick Mastery property and you have the Nick Weapon Mastery feature. Because those all require making an attack as part of the Attack action to trigger and you didn’t make the attack as part of the Attack action. You made it as a Reaction you set up by using the Ready action.

It’s included in that list because it’s an option. But without the other actions on that list it wouldn’t really mean much would it?

It could have been written as a thing you can do on your turn in place of an action, to allow you to take another Action at a different point in the turn order. But it wasn’t. It was written as a discrete Action, with its own considerations.

 

[James Gasik]

Nevertheless it is a delay. That’s it’s called when you cause something to happen later than it would normally happen.

Any way. You do you. Points have been made by all sides. Not interested in a game of “yes it is - no it isn’t - yes it is”.

Except the idea of "later in the round" doesn't actually exist, all of these actions are supposed to be happening simultaneously, the creatures and characters in combat aren't actually waiting to take their turns, the whole "turn order" is simply a necessary abstraction to keep play from becoming too confusing. In fact, you can't "delay" in 5e rules to act later in the turn even if you wanted to- if my Cleric's initiative count is 20, he can't choose to do nothing on the off chance someone gets hurt later in the round for him to heal. He'll have to wait til his initiative count on the next turn to do that.

Ready doesn't even change your initiative count, it simply allows you to try and be more precise with how your action flows with other actions, but it comes with a cost.

-It's worth noting that this should also be the "aha" moment for understanding why you shouldn't be allowed to take the Magic action for a leveled spell when it's not your turn if you also used a Magic action on your turn to do the same, since it's all happening in the same 6-second combat round. Unfortunately, WotC decided to allow shenanigans like Sneak Attack when it's not your turn, which leads to debates like this (I realize there was pressure from players about this, but they really should have stuck to their guns about the narrative flow of the combat round).

 

[TheSword]

In literally all cases the rules treat it this way. That’s why, for example, attacking with a Reaction you set up with the Ready action doesn’t allow you to make two attacks with the Extra Attack feature, or the Light weapon property, even if the weapon also has the Nick Mastery property and you have the Nick Weapon Mastery feature. Because those all require making an attack as part of the Attack action to trigger and you didn’t make the attack as part of the Attack action. You made it as a Reaction you set up by using the Ready action.

That is simply not the case. The reason those abilities don’t work is because they both clearly state the extra attacks must be linked to an attack on your turn. Not because Ready doesn’t count as an Attack action. The very fact that it had to be spelled out so explicitly is evidence that it would count as an attack action and those things would otherwise apply

Those two examples have nothing to do with Ready.