D&D 5E (2024) Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024

[ECMO3]

So you truly don't think that the way the overwhelming majority of spells are cast is the Magic Action. That it's not the normal(most used) way?

It is the most common, it is not normal in the context they are using here.

Slow is normally used against multiple enemies, does that mean I can't ready an action to cast it at a single Dragon when it gets close because normally it is used against multiple enemies.

 

[Maxperson]

It is the most common, it is not normal in the context they are using here.

Yes it is. They would not bother to say "as normal" if it were just a part of the Ready Action.

Slow is normally used against multiple enemies, does that mean I can't ready an action to cast it at a single Dragon when it gets close because normally it is used against multiple enemies.

Wow. That analogy stretched so far it snapped. That's not even close to what is going on here.

 

[ECMO3]

By that logic you cannot use any of the other actions via the Ready action either.

Yes you can because you are not taking them on your turn. When I ready the attack action, I take it off turn after the trigger happens.

Per the "Ready a spell" rule I must cast the spell on my turn. IF you are saying I must take the Magic Action to cast it then this too would need to happen on my turn.

What the Ready 'action' really does is delay your actual action until a trigger occurs, at which point it is used as your reaction to the trigger.

Not in 5.5E:

You take the Ready action to wait for a particular circumstance before you act. To do so, you take this action on your turn, which lets you act by taking a Reaction before the start of your next turn.

The only difference between delaying e.g. an attack that way vs a spell is, that in case of a spell, the slot is used even if the trigger does not occur. I.e. you 'lose' your action if you delay it and the trigger does not happen, regardless of what action you delayed.

That is not the only difference. There is an entire paragraph on readying the spell. In short - you must "cast" the spell and expend the resources on your turn and you must maintain concentration until the trigger occurs and you "release" the spell.

This is fundamentally different. If you ready the attack action and the trigger never occurs then you never make an attack, if you ready a spell and the trigger never occurs or if you lose concentration you still cast that spell you still are under every effect associated with the casting. If an enemy sees it he can counterspell it on your turn (not on the trigger), he can dispel it on his turn even if the trigger hasn't happened yet. If you are an Abjurerer and it is an Abjuration spell it charges your ward even if the trigger never occurs, because you did cast the spell.

This is fundamentally different than if say a Barbarian readies the attack action and never uses it. In this case the attack didn't happen and the Barbarian may suffer the effects of that.

 

[James Gasik]

Ok so the contention is about whether or not the Ready action used to cast a spell is actually a Magic Action. I don't have a horse in this race, but something about that bugs me. If I have Warcaster, and I cast a single-action spell in response to a provoked opportunity attack as a reaction- am I also considered to be taking the Magic Action?

Because I was under the assumption reactions were their own action, not a subset of other actions. If I make a weapon attack as a reaction, that's not the Attack Action, for example. If I ready an action to pull a lever or close a door, that's not the "Use an Object" action...right?

It just feels like "cast a spell as normal" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Either way, I don't play 2024 and I do agree that this seems to go against the intent of the spellcasting rules (although it's not the only thing that does that, and that intent, ie, preventing someone from casting two spells using spell slots already runs into issues with spells that don't use spell slots, ie, you can have the same spell, requiring the same action, coming from different sources, but if one is cast using a trait and the other a spell slot, we have this dubious rule coming in to stop it. Like, cast Mage Armor as a Wizard- spell slot, no using another spell slot this turn. Cast Mage Armor with a Warlock Invocation, oh sure, you can use a spell slot to cast another spell, that's just fine- no explanation for why or how, it just is. )

 

[ECMO3]

Wow. That analogy stretched so far it snapped. That's not even close to what is going on here.

But it is the "normal" way slow is used isn't it?

 

[TiQuinn]

That is not true it is an action which you take on your turn. It generally allows you to take another action as a reaction in response to a trigger off turn.

Wouldn’t that assume you have an action to begin with? If the player already used a Magic action, and can’t use Action Surge to use another Magic Action, wouldn’t that make it an invalid choice for a Ready action as well?

Again, you’re the DM. It sounds like the text hits one of those areas where different interpretations can be made, so ultimately it’s your call and you have to decide if it works out for you long term, or if this just a one time edge case.

 

[James Gasik]

Wouldn’t that assume you have an action to begin with? If the player already used a Magic action, and can’t use Action Surge to use another Magic Action, wouldn’t that make it an invalid choice for a Ready action as well?

Again, you’re the DM. It sounds like the text hits one of those areas where different interpretations can be made, so ultimately it’s your call and you have to decide if it works out for you long term, or if this just a one time edge case.

What if they did it the other way, use Action Surge to ready an action to cast a spell when it's not their turn, then use the Magic Action to cast a spell?

 

[TiQuinn]

What if they did it the other way, use Action Surge to ready an action to cast a spell when it's not their turn, then use the Magic Action to cast a spell?

By my understanding, it wouldn’t work. The description says you have to cast the spell when you Ready the action. So you still wouldn’t be able to use a Magic action afterwards either, IMO.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Personally I just think an Eldritch Knight (of a certain level at least) should get to use action surge for magic if they want to. The "problem" with classic 5e action surge was the lure of a two level Fighter dip for otherwise strictly mage characters to improve their magic through a function of action surge that didn't really fit the narrative it was evoking. A character with many levels of Eldritch Knight being able to bring their fighterly heroic burst of action to their (limited) spellcasting, generally of spells which are behind the power curve by time they are casting them, is just not a problem. Maybe it's a problem from a wanting a big dumb "one leveled spell per turn" rule perspective, but it's not going to wildly unbalance things.

 

[Maxperson]

But it is the "normal" way slow is used isn't it?

It's apples and orangutans.