D&D 5E (2024) Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024

[mamba]

This is not consistent with the wording in the 5.5E PHB. Spells with a casting time of an action don't actually say in the spell description that they require a "Magic Action" to cast, they just say "Casting Time: Action".

Taking the Magic action to cast it is obviously what you do, even if the spell does not say so explicitly, that would be redundant. Also "When you take the Magic action, you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action or use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated."

 

[ECMO3]

In combat that action is the Magic Action.

or the Ready Action if you are talking about a spell with a casting time of an action.

You can't take both the Ready Action and the Magic Action on your turn. That would be two actions in one turn, so taking the ready action on your turn to cast a spell can not also use the Magic Action on your turn to cast it.

This is a case of specific vs general. Using the Ready Action generally allows you to take a specific action as a reaction in response to a trigger. If we did not have specific rules for spells you would ready the Magic Action and the Magic Action would occur with the trigger and you would use the Magic Action and cast the spell at that time.

However we have specific rules for readying spells that override this general rule. If you are casting a spell with the ready action you cast it on your turn (it does not say you use the Magic Action on your turn), you expend any resources and you release the magic as a reaction with the trigger. You maintain concentration until you release it.

 

[mamba]

You can't take both the Ready Action and the Magic Action on your turn. That would be two actions in one turn

the Ready action 'wraps around;' the Magic action (or another action), it is not an action by itself.

"First, you decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your Reaction. Then, you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger"

From the list of actions
Magic: Cast a spell, use a magic item, or use a magical feature.
Ready: Prepare to take an action in response to a trigger you define.

 

[Maxperson]

or the Ready Action if you are talking about a spell with a casting time of an action.

No. The Ready Action does not say cast a spell and hold it, which is what would happen if the Ready Action cast the spell. It explicitly says that you have to cast the spell AS NORMAL(which means how you would cast it if on your turn) and then it goes on to describe other things.

You cannot avoid the "cast as normal" portion of the rule.

You can't take both the Ready Action and the Magic Action on your turn. That would be two actions in one turn, so taking the ready action on your turn to cast a spell can not also use the Magic Action on your turn to cast it.

Specific beats general. The Ready Action specifies that spells must be cast as normal, which means the Magic Action.

This is a case of specific vs general.

Correct. See above.

 

[ECMO3]

Taking the Magic action to cast it is obviously what you do, even if the spell does not say so explicitly, that would be redundant. Also "When you take the Magic action, you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action or use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated."

Yes that is under the Magic Action, not under the spell description or the description of the Ready action. This is what happens when you use the Magic Action to cast a spell with a reaction time of an action.

It is not what happens when you use the Ready Action to cast a spell with a casting time of one action, that is covered under the description of the Ready Action.

 

[ECMO3]

No. The Ready Action does not say cast a spell and hold it, which is what would happen if the Ready Action cast the spell. It explicitly says that you have to cast the spell AS NORMAL(which means how you would cast it if on your turn) and then it goes on to describe other things.

You cannot avoid the "cast as normal" portion of the rule.

You are casting it as normal, but you are not using the Magic Action and nothing in the book defines the Magic action as the "normal" way to cast a spell with a casting time of an action. It also does say you hold it. Here is the verbiage:

"When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal (expending any resources used to cast it) but hold its energy, which you release with your Reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of an action, and holding on to the spell’s magic requires Concentration, which you can maintain up to the start of your next turn. If your Concentration is broken, the spell dissipates without taking effect."

Specific beats general. The Ready Action specifies that spells must be cast as normal, which means the Magic Action.

Nothing defines using the Magic Action is normal. I will agree that the casting time of an action is the normal casting time for the spell.

Also as noted if a spell actually requires using a Magic Action to cast you could never do that because you can't take the Magic Action to cast it after you take the Ready Action.

 

[mamba]

Yes that is under the Magic Action, not under the spell description or the description of the Ready action.

agreed, it describes that casting spells is done by using the Magic action. Why would that be under the Ready action...

It is not what happens when you use the Ready Action to cast a spell with a casting time of one action, that is covered under the description of the Ready Action.

Here is what Ready says: "First, you decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your Reaction. Then, you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger" the action being the Magic action in this case.

"When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal (expending any resources used to cast it) but hold its energy, which you release with your Reaction when the trigger occurs." normal casting is the Magic action, the difference is that you hold back the release.

 

[mamba]

Also as noted if a spell actually requires using a Magic Action to cast you could never do that because you can't take the Magic Action to cast it after you take the Ready Action.

By that logic you cannot use any of the other actions via the Ready action either. What the Ready 'action' really does is delay your actual action until a trigger occurs, at which point it is used as your reaction to the trigger. The only difference between delaying e.g. an attack that way vs a spell is, that in case of a spell, the slot is used even if the trigger does not occur. I.e. you 'lose' your action if you delay it and the trigger does not happen, regardless of what action you delayed.

 

[Maxperson]

Nothing defines using the Magic Action is normal. I will agree that the casting time of an action is the normal casting time for the spell.

Also as noted if a spell actually requires using a Magic Action to cast you could never do that because you can't take the Magic Action to cast it after you take the Ready Action.

So you truly don't think that the way the overwhelming majority of spells are cast is the Magic Action. That it's not the normal(most used) way?

Normal = the norm for how something is done.

 

[ECMO3]

the Ready action 'wraps around;' the Magic action (or another action), it is not an action by itself.

That is not true it is an action which you take on your turn. It generally allows you to take another action as a reaction in response to a trigger off turn.

Spell casting using the readied action uses a specific rule that bypasses this.

There is nothing in the Ready Action which lets you use a second action on your turn.

"First, you decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your Reaction. Then, you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger"

From the list of actions
Magic: Cast a spell, use a magic item, or use a magical feature.
Ready: Prepare to take an action in response to a trigger you define.

Yes but the action has to come off turn. You can not use more than one action in a turn, so if casting a spell "normally" always requires you to use a Magic Action then you could never ready a spell because you have to cast it on your turn and you can not use a second action on your turn.

"Ready a spell" is different, and that is how it is worded. It does not say "readying the Magic Action". You can ready the Magic Action per the general rules as it is an action, but this is not for casting a spell as casting a spell has specific rules associated with it. You would ready the Magic Action for something else that uses the Magic Action (for example Turn Undead) and would use the Magic Action off turn in response to the trigger.