D&D 5E (2024) Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024

[ECMO3]

The rules forbid using a reaction for spell casting (that includes readying an action, because it uses your reaction too) if a spell with spell slot was already cast as action. So what your player wants to do in your example was in no way permissioned by the rules.

Yes I know, but in this case he did not use a spell slot for either spell.

The only real restriction is you must concentrate from the time you ready to the time you cast. So he could not have done this in reverse - Wall of Fire then Fireball as a Reaction, because he would have had to drop concentration on Wall of Fire to ready Fireball.

The short RAI is: A player can never cast two leveled spells per round.

No RAI is pretty clearly it only restricts spells that use a spell slot (and there are additional restrictions on Quicken spell, but that is not relevant here).

I think JC even mentioned this when talking about the new Fey Warlock and how he can cast Misty Step repeatedly and then cast another spell.

 

[ECMO3]

I think it’s even simpler you can’t use your Action Surge to use the magic action, not even to ready it as a reaction.

But it is a completely different action. One is the Magic Action, the other is the Ready action.

 

[ECMO3]

I think, as @FarBeyondC just pointed out, it doesn't work that way.

Per ready action:

When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal (expending any resources used to cast it) but hold its energy, which you release with your Reaction when the trigger occurs.

"Cast as normal" means using the magic action to cast the spell. The reaction is an additional requirement for holding then releasing the spell later.

And frankly, interpreting it otherwise makes the Haste restriction near meaningless. You just have the trigger be the end of your turn and it will safely go off - only extra cost is the reaction.

No the Ready Action and the Magic Action are two completely different actions and both of them can be used to cast spells.

Further this does not affect Haste at all because you can't take the ready action with Haste:

"Choose a willing creature that you can see within range. Until the spell ends, the target’s Speed is doubled, it gains a +2 bonus to Armor Class, it has Advantage on Dexterity saving throws, and it gains an additional action on each of its turns. That action can be used to take only the Attack (one attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide or Utilize action."

So you can't use the Ready Action with Haste at all, not to make an attack or anything.

 

[Mort]

No the Ready Action and the Magic Action are two completely different actions and both of them can be used to cast spells.

Further this does not affect Haste at all because you can't take the ready action with Haste:

"Choose a willing creature that you can see within range. Until the spell ends, the target’s Speed is doubled, it gains a +2 bonus to Armor Class, it has Advantage on Dexterity saving throws, and it gains an additional action on each of its turns. That action can be used to take only the Attack (one attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide or Utilize action."

So you can't use the Ready Action with Haste at all, not to make an attack or anything.

True, I was typing quickly and meant to say action surge, but somehow wrote Haste.

And I do think that's correct. I interpret "cast as normal" to mean use the magic action to cast, because that's the normal way of casting. Then the ready action does the other stuff, holding it ,adding concentration and requiring a reaction for the trigger.

 

[ECMO3]

Unless they changed it for 5.5e, the rule is that you can't cast two leveled spells on your turn, not round. Casting the leveled spell as a reaction outside of your turn doesn't seem to violate that.

They did change this in 5.5. You can't use a spell slot to cast more than one spell and there are additional restrictions on Quicken spell, but you can cast more than one spell as long as you don't use more than one slot This is both as written and as intended and discussed during the release.

You cannot cast a spell on your turn without the Magic Action. That's what "as normal" is.

There are lots of ways to cast a spell on your turn without using the Magic Action: War Magic, Quicken Spell, using a spell with a casting time of a bonus action or a reaction (provided the trigger occurs), Valor Bard Extra Attack, Mantle of Majesty.

 

[Maxperson]

There are lots of ways to cast a spell on your turn without using the Magic Action: War Magic, Quicken Spell, using a spell with a casting time of a bonus action or a reaction (provided the trigger occurs), Valor Bard Extra Attack, Mantle of Majesty.

None of those are normal. As feats, class abilities, etc. they are exceptions to the normal rules. Specific beats general.

Casting on your turn isn't the issue. It's that you MUST cast it normally and the only normal ways to cast spells are Magic Action, Bonus Action, and Reaction. The player wasn't using the last two and the first one is forbidden.

 

[ECMO3]

Effectively, yes. You cast the spell as normal on your turn. That means Magic Action, Bonus Action, or Reaction, though it would be hard to ready a reaction since you aren't reacting to anything. Then as a reaction you are releasing the spell completing the initial Magic or Bonus Action from your turn.

You can not ready an action to do a bonus action, not for a spell or any other Bonus Action. Anything you do with a Bonus Action must happen on your turn AFAIK.

This is why in 5.5 you can't use Ready Action to drink a potion.

Since you cannot take a Magic Action during an Action Surge turn, the only way to satisfy both the "as normal" requirement and the "no Magic Action" requirement in order to ready an action is by casting a spell with a Bonus Action.

This is not consistent with the wording in the 5.5E PHB. Spells with a casting time of an action don't actually say in the spell description that they require a "Magic Action" to cast, they just say "Casting Time: Action".

Only the section covering Actions and the Magic Action discusses this; saying that you use the Magic Action to cast a spell that requires an action to cast or that you take the Magic Action each turn for a spell that requires a minute or longer to cast. It also states explicitly that you can only take one action a turn, so if readying a spell on your turn also uses the magic action on your turn then this would make no sense.

 

[ECMO3]

Casting on your turn isn't the issue. It's that you MUST cast it normally and the only normal ways to cast spells are Magic Action, Bonus Action, and Reaction.

This is not defined as such in the 5.5E PHB.

 

[Maxperson]

You can not ready an action to do a bonus action, not for a spell or any other Bonus Action. Anything you do with a Bonus Action must happen on your turn AFAIK.

This is why in 5.5 you can't use Ready Action to drink a potion.



This is not consistent with the wording in the 5.5E PHB. Spells with a casting time of an action don't actually say in the spell description that they require a "Magic Action" to cast, they just say "Casting Time: Action".

Only the section covering Actions and the Magic Action discusses this; saying that you use the Magic Action to cast a spell that requires an action to cast or that you take the Magic Action each turn for a spell that requires a minute or longer to cast. It also states explicitly that you can only take one action a turn, so if readying a spell on your turn also uses the magic action on your turn then this would make no sense.

In combat that action is the Magic Action.

 

[ECMO3]

You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."

This changed in 5.5. In 5.5 you can't use a slot to cast more than one spell a turn.