D&D 5E (2024) Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024

[Charlaquin]

To add: after you cast the spell as normal, you must concentrate until your readied action releases it, if your concentration is broken the spell is ruined. So you cast, and then concentrate to hold until the reaction occurs.

Not you declare what the reaction is and then cast when the reaction occurs,

You literally do, that’s exactly what the text of the Ready action says you do.

First, you decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your Reaction. Then, you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose to move up to your Speed in response to it.

why would you need to hold concentration then?

Because that’s what the text of the Ready action says you do when you use it to cast a spell.

 

[mamba]

When you Ready an action, you don’t take that action until the trigger occurs. It literally says you choose the action you will take, as in you take the action in the future, not in the moment that you take the Ready action. You “cast the spell as normal,” but that doesn’t necessarily mean using the Magic action. It means performing the necessary spell components and spending the necessary resources.

so why / how are the resources, including the spell slot, spent even if the trigger does not occur and you did not actually cast the spell beforehand?

moreover, the Ready action requires a specific trigger for you to use the Reaction in response to, and if that trigger doesn’t happen before the end of your next turn, your action, and the spell slot, is wasted. As well, when you Ready a spell, you have to maintain concentration from the point you took the ready action until the point you cast the spell. That means if you were concentrating on an ongoing spell, you have to drop that spell to perform this maneuver, and then you’re vulnerable to having your concentration disrupted, and losing the spell you wanted to cast anyway.

Not sure how you reconcile these two posts

 

[Mort]

You literally do, that’s exactly what the text of the Ready action says you do.

First, you decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your Reaction. Then, you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose to move up to your Speed in response to it.

Because that’s what the text of the Ready action says you do when you use it to cast a spell.

Casting a spell merits special mention under readying and action:

When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and holding onto the spell's magic requires concentration. If your concentration is broken, the spell dissipates without taking effect. For example, if you are concentrating on the web spell and ready magic missile, your web spell ends, and if you take damage before you release magic missile with your reaction, your concentration might be broken.

You'll note it says once you RELEASE magic missile with your reaction not once you CAST magic missile with your reaction. You cast the spell on your turn using the magic action, hold it, and release upon the trigger.

 

[Valetudo]

 

[Charlaquin]

so why / how are the resources, including the spell slot, spent even if the trigger does not occur and you did not actually cast the spell beforehand?

You did cast the spell beforehand. You just cast it using the Ready action rather than the Magic action. Like I said, the Magic action is the most common way to cast a spell, but it’s not the only way to do so.

Not sure how you reconcile these two posts

By not conflating “the Magic action” with “performing the necessary components and expending the necessary resources to cast the spell.” The former is a purely meta-game rules construct. The latter is actual activity that is performed in the fiction, typically as allowed by the rules construct that is called the Magic action, or in this case by the rules construct that is called the Ready action. The Action Surge rule restricts against the former, not the latter.

 

[Charlaquin]

Casting a spell merits special mention under readying and action:

When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and holding onto the spell's magic requires concentration. If your concentration is broken, the spell dissipates without taking effect. For example, if you are concentrating on the web spell and ready magic missile, your web spell ends, and if you take damage before you release magic missile with your reaction, your concentration might be broken.

You'll note it says once you RELEASE magic missile with your reaction not once you CAST magic missile with your reaction. You cast the spell on your turn using the magic action, hold it, and release upon the trigger.

Yes. I don’t dispute any of that. But nothing in that text says you take the Magic action. In fact, it wouldn’t make sense for you to do so, because you only have one action per turn, which you’re already using to take the Ready action.

The different named action types, much like turns, are strictly meta-game rules constructs. Taking the Magic action is not something you do as part of “casting a spell normally,” it’s just the rule that most typically allows you to “cast a spell normally.” The Ready action also allows you to cast a spell normally, and “release” it as a Reaction in response to a later trigger.

 

[Maxperson]

I don’t see any reason you can’t. The Magic action is the most common way to cast a spell, but it’s not the only way.

Correct. The other two normal ways are Bonus Action and Reaction, neither of which are used during the casting that happens in preparation for the OP's readied action to come.

By this logic, you must somehow be taking the Magic action twice - once when you take the Ready action, and again when the trigger occurs, since the Ready action says you choose the action you will take in response to the trigger.

Effectively, yes. You cast the spell as normal on your turn. That means Magic Action, Bonus Action, or Reaction, though it would be hard to ready a reaction since you aren't reacting to anything. Then as a reaction you are releasing the spell completing the initial Magic or Bonus Action from your turn.

Since you cannot take a Magic Action during an Action Surge turn, the only way to satisfy both the "as normal" requirement and the "no Magic Action" requirement in order to ready an action is by casting a spell with a Bonus Action.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

I disagree. The Ready action specifies that you cast the spell on your turn at the time of taking the Ready action. You then just delay the release of the spell. The reaction is simply to delay the result. The spell slot is expended at the point of casting the spell.

The two slotted spell rule talks about expending slots not using the magic axtion.

Ah this makes sense you were referring to the restrictions against using two spell slots per turn, rather than the Action Surge restriction against using a Magic Action. The OP's situation still works RAW since it was a magic item and no spell slots were used, but this would prevent most cases of attempting to Ready a spell with Action Surge

As said above: turn ending is not an allowed trigger. You could always just trigger it yourself by whistling or whatever... but this is clearly not the intend of the ready action.

In the OP's situation they stated "if any of the enemies move closer to us" which is a reasonable trigger condition. It might not even occur at all if the enemies stay put or run backwards.

 

[Uta-napishti]

I can tell you that 2014 didn't have this limitation, and it was fun to be a wizard fighter multiclass and cast two fireballs on a turn. Perfectly legal RAW.

 

[Maxperson]

I can tell you that 2014 didn't have this limitation, and it was fun to be a wizard fighter multiclass and cast two fireballs on a turn. Perfectly legal RAW.

And I really don't see a problem with just making a house rule that it can be done in 5.5e. It's just not RAW to do it.