D&D 5E (2024) Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024

[mamba]

You did cast the spell beforehand. You just cast it using the Ready action rather than the Magic action. Like I said, the Magic action is the most common way to cast a spell, but it’s not the only way to do so.

By not conflating “the Magic action” with “performing the necessary components and expending the necessary resources to cast the spell.” The former is a purely meta-game rules construct. The latter is actual activity that is performed in the fiction, typically as allowed by the rules construct that is called the Magic action, or in this case by the rules construct that is called the Ready action. The Action Surge rule restricts against the former, not the latter.

Ah I see, you see the Ready action as performing the spellcasting rather than it needing a Magic action to do so, with the Ready part then only being responsible for holding back the spell effect until the condition is met.

 

[Retros_x]

What? No they don’t. In the revised PHB, the only restriction on leveled spells is that you can only cast one spell with a spell slot per turn. Casting a spell with a spell slot as a reaction doesn’t run up against that restriction, unless the trigger for your reaction happened while it was still your turn.

Unless they changed it for 5.5e, the rule is that you can't cast two leveled spells on your turn, not round. Casting the leveled spell as a reaction outside of your turn doesn't seem to violate that.

Yes I correct myself, spells with casting time of reaction are not effected. But you cannot ready an action spell with casting time action after you already casted an spell on your turn. The rules are written as follows as follows (from PHB rules glossary under "ready action"):

When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal (expending any resources used to cast it) but hold its energy, which you release with your Reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of an action, and holding on to the spell’s magic requires Concentration, which you can maintain up to the start of your next turn.

And under Spellcasting:

One Spell with a Spell Slot per Turn​

On a turn, you can expend only one spell slot to cast a spell. (<<normal casting)

Bold text by me to emphasize. You cast the spell as normal during your time, for me that reads clearly as all restriction to normal spellcasting still hold up here.

 

[darjr]

I very much dislike this kind of thing. I’ll grant it is a neat rules hack. I do think it leads to a ratcheting down of rules trying to cover “loopholes”

I’d rule it out.

 

[Mort]

Yes. I don’t dispute any of that. But nothing in that text says you take the Magic action. In fact, it wouldn’t make sense for you to do so, because you only have one action per turn, which you’re already using to take the Ready action.

The different named action types, much like turns, are strictly meta-game rules constructs. Taking the Magic action is not something you do as part of “casting a spell normally,” it’s just the rule that most typically allows you to “cast a spell normally.” The Ready action also allows you to cast a spell normally, and “release” it as a Reaction in response to a later trigger.

For me, this adds needless complexity. "Cast as normal" IMO means cast using the magic action (as normal) and the ready action allows you to hold it as the text says. It doesn't replace the magic action, it adds to it. But I can see reading it the way you do - just don't agree.

 

[Maxperson]

I very much dislike this kind of thing. I’ll grant it is a neat rules hack. I do think it leads to a ratcheting down of rules trying to cover “loopholes”

I’d rule it out.

It actually doesn't work, but as a rule, I dislike loophole lawyers as much as rules lawyers in my games. I get other folks like that sort of thing, but it's not for me.

 

[Mort]

Correct. The other two normal ways are Bonus Action and Reaction, neither of which are used during the casting that happens in preparation for the OP's readied action to come.

Effectively, yes. You cast the spell as normal on your turn. That means Magic Action, Bonus Action, or Reaction, though it would be hard to ready a reaction since you aren't reacting to anything. Then as a reaction you are releasing the spell completing the initial Magic or Bonus Action from your turn.

Since you cannot take a Magic Action during an Action Surge turn, the only way to satisfy both the "as normal" requirement and the "no Magic Action" requirement in order to ready an action is by casting a spell with a Bonus Action.

Except then you run into the text of ready action "To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of an action..." So no holding a bonus action spell!

 

[W'rkncacnter]

...doesn't the ready action necessitate taking the action you're readying? the section about how to ready a spell even says you "cast it as normal", which would seem to include taking the magic action, which would seem to make this not even work RAW. am i missing something?

 

[ECMO3]

How did 5.5e change the ready action?

They did not change the ready action, they changed action surge to say you could take any action except the magic action.

 

[darjr]

It actually doesn't work, but as a rule, I dislike loophole lawyers as much as rules lawyers in my games. I get other folks like that sort of thing, but it's not for me.

I saw that later in the thread.

I’ve burnt out of so many arms race games that I just try to nip it in the bud.

 

[ECMO3]

Why would you think that readying an action to cast a spell would be fundamentally different to casting the spell? Surely the only difference is when it takes effect?

Because readying an action to cast a spell does not use the magic action, it uses the Ready action. It also burns a reaction.