D&D 5E (2024) Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024

[Charlaquin]

I address this in a later post and agree with that. But the trigger CAN be something very easy, whistling, even blinking.

I wouldn’t allow “when I blink” or similar and then blinking as soon as your turn is over either. Again, turns aren’t a thing in the fiction, so the character can’t blink when one ends any more than they can use one ending as a Ready trigger. It would have to be something that occurs in the game world, like “any of the monsters move” or as someone else suggested “Lancelot attacks an enemy.”

The point is, you're not casting with the reaction, it's just a trigger for the earlier magic action. Which is why the OP player's "work around" doesn't work.

I don’t find the argument that you use the magic action to cast the readied spell compelling. It says you “choose what action you will take in response to the trigger,” so you are using the magic action when the trigger occurs, not when you Ready the spell. What is more convincing is the argument that, since you expend the spell slot when you take the Ready action, this could bump up against the “one spell with a spell slot per turn” rule. But since the example in the OP was casting with a staff, no spell slot is being used. So, again, I think this technique is valid and would allow it, but it is risky and I would have any intelligent enemies try to disrupt the character’s concentration before the trigger occurs.

 

[Bae'zel]

That just changes the PC's trigger to "as soon as PC_who_is_next_in_initiative_order starts an action", which is still metagaming.

Yeah I'd request the player to explain exactly what trigger they're watching for.

"As soon as Elfor the Elf fires his bow"

"As soon as Baldric the Bard sings his song"

"As soon as the Borky the Orc comes around the corner"

 

[Maxperson]

Personally, I don’t think “my turn ends” is a valid trigger for the Ready action, because it’s not a thing occurring in the game world. Turns are a strictly meta-game concept, the PC can’t wait for it to happen and take a reaction in response to it, because it doesn’t exist in their universe.

I agree, but it's moot for this thread anyway since you can't cast a spell as normal on your action surge turn, so there's no spell to ready.

 

[Charlaquin]

That just changes the PC's trigger to "as soon as PC_who_is_next_in_initiative_order starts an action", which is still metagaming.

An action is also a game rules construct, not a thing in the fiction. But, “as soon as (so and so) attacks” would be valid in my opinion.

 

[Mort]

I wouldn’t allow “when I blink” or similar and then blinking as soon as your turn is over either. Again, turns aren’t a thing in the fiction, so the character can’t blink when one ends any more than they can use one ending as a Ready trigger. It would have to be something that occurs in the game world, like “any of the monsters move” or as someone else suggested “Lancelot attacks an enemy.”

I don’t find the argument that you use the magic action to cast the readied spell compelling. It says you “choose what action you will take in response to the trigger,” so you are using the magic action when the trigger occurs, not when you Ready the spell. What is more convincing is the argument that, since you expend the spell slot when you take the Ready action, this could bump up against the “one spell with a spell slot per turn” rule. But since the example in the OP was casting with a staff, no spell slot is being used. So, again, I think this technique is valid and would allow it, but it is risky and I would have any intelligent enemies try to disrupt the character’s concentration before the trigger occurs.

I just don't see any other way to read

"When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy,"

than to read you use the magic action as your action but hold off casting. Since the magic action is not allowed with action surge, this doesn't work.

Yes a staff was used here, but you still need the magic action to trigger the staff - so it works the same way

 

[Charlaquin]

I agree, but it's moot for this thread anyway since you can't cast a spell as normal on your action surge turn, so there's no spell to ready.

I disagree, the restriction on Action Surge is against taking the Magic action, not against casting a spell, and I don’t find the idea that “casting a spell as normal” with the Ready action necessarily means taking the Magic action, particularly because the Ready action says you declare what action you will take in response to the trigger. Casting a spell does normally require spending a spell slot, which you can’t do twice in a turn, so this technique wouldn’t work to allow you to cast two spells under your own power. But the player in the OP is using a staff, so no spell slots are being used.

 

[Maxperson]

I disagree, the restriction on Action Surge is against taking the Magic action, not against casting a spell, and I don’t find the idea that “casting a spell as normal” with the Ready action necessarily means taking the Magic action, particularly because the Ready action says you declare what action you will take in response to the trigger. Casting a spell does normally require spending a spell slot, which you can’t do twice in a turn, so this technique wouldn’t work to allow you to cast two spells under your own power. But the player in the OP is using a staff, so no spell slots are being used.

You cannot cast a spell on your turn without the Magic Action. That's what "as normal" is. We have a situation where either you cast the spell as normal, which requires a Magic Action and therefore can't be done on an Action Surge turn, or you abnormally cast the spell without a Magic Action, in which case it doesn't qualify to be readied. Either way it's not happening in an Action Surge turn.

 

[Charlaquin]

I just don't see any other way to read

"When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy,"

than to read you use the magic action as your action but hold off casting. Since the magic action is not allowed with action surge, this doesn't work.

Yes a staff was used here, but you still need the magic action to trigger the staff - so it works the same way

When you Ready an action, you don’t take that action until the trigger occurs. It literally says you choose the action you will take, as in you take the action in the future, not in the moment that you take the Ready action. You “cast the spell as normal,” but that doesn’t necessarily mean using the Magic action. It means performing the necessary spell components and spending the necessary resources.

 

[Mort]

I disagree, the restriction on Action Surge is against taking the Magic action, not against casting a spell, and I don’t find the idea that “casting a spell as normal” with the Ready action necessarily means taking the Magic action, particularly because the Ready action says you declare what action you will take in response to the trigger. Casting a spell does normally require spending a spell slot, which you can’t do twice in a turn, so this technique wouldn’t work to allow you to cast two spells under your own power. But the player in the OP is using a staff, so no spell slots are being used.

To add: after you cast the spell as normal, you must concentrate until your readied action releases it, if your concentration is broken the spell is ruined. So you cast, and then concentrate to hold until the reaction occurs.

Not you declare what the reaction is and then cast when the reaction occurs, why would you need to hold concentration then?

 

[Charlaquin]

You cannot cast a spell on your turn without the Magic Action.

I don’t see any reason you can’t. The Magic action is the most common way to cast a spell, but it’s not the only way.

That's what "as normal" is. We have a situation where either you cast the spell as normal, which requires a Magic Action and therefore can't be done on an Action Surge turn, or you abnormally cast the spell without a Magic Action, in which case it doesn't qualify to be readied. Either way it's not happening in an Action Surge turn.

By this logic, you must somehow be taking the Magic action twice - once when you take the Ready action, and again when the trigger occurs, since the Ready action says you choose the action you will take in response to the trigger.