D&D 5E (2024) Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024

[TheSword]

According to the rules they are different. Action Surge allows any action except the Magic Action. Casting the spell on your turn uses the Magic Action, thus is prevented. Taking the Ready Action to concentrate on a spell, then using your Reaction to cast the spell does not the Magic Action, and technically is allowed.

It's a gray enough area that I could easily see some DMs ruling that it's outside their interpretation of Rules As Intended, even if it is within Rules As Written. Personally I don't see a problem with it - you are giving up your Reaction and your Concentration, so you are still taking a somewhat hefty penalty.

I disagree. The Ready action specifies that you cast the spell on your turn at the time of taking the Ready action. You then just delay the release of the spell. The reaction is simply to delay the result. The spell slot is expended at the point of casting the spell.

The two slotted spell rule talks about expending slots not using the magic axtion.

 

[Mort]

So one of my players came up with a workaround today in a game I am DMing. The PC is an Eldritch Knight 6/Sorcerer 9. He used a staff of fire to fireball a group of Gith soldiers and then wanted to use it to action surge cast a wall of fire to prevent them from closing/damage them if they closed.

I told him Wall of Fire requires a Magic Action, even from a Staff and you can't do that with AS. He changed it up - "ok Action Surge and I ready an action to cast Wall of Fire if any of them move closer to us, that is a ready action not a magic action".

I think this is totally within the rules. I gave him a Heroic Inspiration for figuring the workaround and let him do it.

What do you think?

I think, as @FarBeyondC just pointed out, it doesn't work that way.

Per ready action:

When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal (expending any resources used to cast it) but hold its energy, which you release with your Reaction when the trigger occurs.

"Cast as normal" means using the magic action to cast the spell. The reaction is an additional requirement for holding then releasing the should later.

And frankly, interpreting it otherwise makes the Haste restriction near meaningless. You just have the trigger be the end of your turn and it will safely go off - only extra cost is the reaction.

 

[FarBeyondC]

I disagree. The Ready action specifies that you cast the spell on your turn at the time of taking the Ready action. You then just delay the release of the spell. The reaction is simply to delay the result. The spell slot is expended at the point of casting the spell.

The two slotted spell rule talks about expending slots not using the magic axtion.

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According to the OP, a Staff of Fire was being used for both castings, so no spell slots are being used.

 

[Maxperson]

There's no change to the Ready Action itself, what changed was Action Surge specifically excluding taking the Magic Action but not being worded broadly enough to prevent using the Ready Action to cast a spell with your Reaction.

Then it can't be done. Ready Action is not the only action taken. The Ready Action specifies that you also declare what action you are taking as the reaction, so you would have to ready the Magic Action to be taken out of turn under specific circumstances. Since the Action Surge specifically excludes taking the Magic Action, you could not ready the Magic Action to be taken.

"First, you decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your reaction. Then, you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose to move up to your speed in response to it."

Since you are choosing the action you will take in response to the trigger while it is still your turn, it can't be the Magic Action.

 

[Maxperson]

The rules forbid using a reaction for spell casting (that includes readying an action, because it uses your reaction too) if a spell with spell slot was already cast as action. So what your player wants to do in your example was in no way permissioned by the rules.

The short RAI is: A player can never cast two leveled spells per round. Even if a player might find a loophole that actually works, this the RAI and you can stand on your ground as DM in spirit of the "good-faith-interpretation-rule".

Of course you can also allow it, but now your player has even more nova potential than they already have. Throw him into a full adventuring day with several encounters after he burned through his slots in such a quick way if you want to throw them a challenge.

Unless they changed it for 5.5e, the rule is that you can't cast two leveled spells on your turn, not round. Casting the leveled spell as a reaction outside of your turn doesn't seem to violate that.

"A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."

The problem is is that you have to on your turn pick an action to ready, and Action Surge doesn't allow it to be the Magic Action since you can't take the Magic Action with it.

 

[Burnside]

I feel like 5.5 RAW allows this, and I don't think it's a huge deal - as @Charlaquin points out, it's a risky move because the triggering event for the Reaction isn't guaranteed to happen, but the spell slot gets burned regardless. I'd allow it (I wouldn't give inspiration for it, mainly because it isn't the sort of thing I give inspiration for).

Full disclosure: I didn't think the 2014 Eldritch Knight being able to use Action Surge to cast two spells was a problem in the first place. This is literally just a worse version of that, so obviously fine with me.

 

[Maxperson]

I disagree. The Ready action specifies that you cast the spell on your turn at the time of taking the Ready action. You then just delay the release of the spell. The reaction is simply to delay the result. The spell slot is expended at the point of casting the spell.

The two slotted spell rule talks about expending slots not using the magic axtion.

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Casting it as normal and then holding it would also prevent it from happening during an Action Surge. Good catch.

 

[Maxperson]

According to the OP, a Staff of Fire was being used for both castings, so no spell slots are being used.

And according to the OP, it takes a Magic Action to do, so it still fails since you can't take the Magic Action while in an action surge turn to cast the spell to be readied.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

One thing to note is that the ready action tells us that the spell is cast as normal. Maybe the whole section about readied actions should be transferred to the magic actiom section. Because what you really do is casting the spell and just not releasing its energy.

On a different note Ivd say the use of a ready action in many cases is the actual offender.

First, you decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your Reaction.

Many expoits rely on ignoring the bolded word. @ECMO3 at least has a correct trigger.

In the game, the fighter would cast the spell once and then waves the staff again threatening to cast another spell.
So at least enemies have a chance to break concentration before approaching further. That at least sounds halfway OK and I might not intervene as a DM.
If the enemies just run into the person swinging the staff instead of attacking, that is on them.
Maybe triggers of readied action need to be perceivable by the enemies too. So you have to shout: "no step further" . Or "don't move" Or: "don't even try to attack me", but in the latter case I might roll another initiative check or let the caster make an appropriate saving throw to be faster than the shooter.

 

[Clint_L]

I'd be a hard no. I hate rules lawyering and this is clearly not rules as intended.