D&D 5E (2024) Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024

[Mort]

It is the most common, it is not normal in the context they are using here.

Slow is normally used against multiple enemies, does that mean I can't ready an action to cast it at a single Dragon when it gets close because normally it is used against multiple enemies.

I was looking at the spells section and this struck me:

Casting Time​

Most spells require the Magic action to cast, but some spells require a Bonus Action, a Reaction, or 1 minute or more. A spell’s Casting Time entry specifies which of those is required.

This leads me back to normal being a magic action (1 action casting time). Notice, ready action is NOT mentioned as a way to cast a spell.

Is this a possible oversight? Sure. But I prefer to think that "normal" means 1 action and therefore the magic action. But it is not stated that way so provides leeway.

 

[TheSword]

I’m just perplexed by @ECMO3 ’s insistence that doing something as a ready action changes its fundamental nature and removes the restraints that normally apply to that action. Ready is just a way of delaying something. It shouldn’t let you work around something that isn’t otherwise possible.

It would be like readying an attack not counting as an attack just because it was performed using Ready action.

It’s very clear that Ready doesn’t change the way the spell is cast - just when it takes effect. A benefit you get from spending the reaction. The benefit is that you get to cast at a more convenient time - that’s what the reaction gains you. Nothing more.

Clearly you’ve made up your mind @ECMO3 which is fine. You’ve seen what peoples opinions are. I just presume you won’t be making another thread saying how over powered 5.5 characters are. Cuz there seems to be a trend of threads where you make extremely permissive judgement calls and bend over backwards to let your players abuse the system (keeping their familiar after trading out the invocation as another example)

 

[Charlaquin]

Ah I see, you see the Ready action as performing the spellcasting rather than it needing a Magic action to do so, with the Ready part then only being responsible for holding back the spell effect until the condition is met.

Yeah, I’d say that’s an accurate summary.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yes I correct myself, spells with casting time of reaction are not effected. But you cannot ready an action spell with casting time action after you already casted an spell on your turn. The rules are written as follows as follows (from PHB rules glossary under "ready action"):


And under Spellcasting:

Bold text by me to emphasize. You cast the spell as normal during your time, for me that reads clearly as all restriction to normal spellcasting still hold up here.

Yes, so if you’re casting these spells of your own power by expending spell slots, this technique definitely doesn't work. But since the player in the opening post was casting both spells from a staff, they are not spending any spell slots. So, whether it works or not depends on if you interpret the “cast(ing) the spell as normal” part of Readying a spell to constitute using the Magic action. I personally do not, but I certainly wouldn’t dispute a DM who ruled that it does, if I was playing at their table.

 

[Charlaquin]

...doesn't the ready action necessitate taking the action you're readying?

It necessitates declaring the action you will take when the trigger occurs. Which to me clearly indicates that you are not taking that action yet at the time you Ready it.

the section about how to ready a spell even says you "cast it as normal", which would seem to include taking the magic action, which would seem to make this not even work RAW. am i missing something?

To me, “casting a spell as normal” means performing the required casting components and expending the required resources, which the Magic action allows you to do, and the Ready action also allows you to do. I do see why others don’t interpret it that way though.

 

[TheSword]

According to the rules they are different. Action Surge allows any action except the Magic Action. Casting the spell on your turn uses the Magic Action, thus is prevented. Taking the Ready Action to concentrate on a spell, then using your Reaction to cast the spell does not the Magic Action, and technically is allowed.

This is an older post but worth saying that

This is circular logic. You’re saying they’re different because one can be used to with action surge and the other can’t. But the only reason it can be used with action surge is because you’re saying they’re different.

You haven’t actually identified any reason why Ready to use a magic item and Magic action to use an item are different in the rules other than the title. If that is the only difference then I hope your can understand why that is an insufficient justification for a lot of people.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

 

[Charlaquin]

the Ready action 'wraps around;' the Magic action (or another action), it is not an action by itself.

The Ready Action is absolutely an action by itself. That’s why it’s found under the “actions” section and written as a discrete action with its own name. It could have been written as a special non-action thing you can do in place of an action, but it wasn’t.

 

[ECMO3]

I’m just perplexed by @ECMO3 ’s insistence that doing something as a ready action changes its fundamental nature and removes the restraints that normally apply to that action. Ready is just a way of delaying something. It shouldn’t let you work around something that isn’t otherwise possible.

Ready action is an action, it is not a delay.

It would be like readying an attack not counting as an attack just because it was performed using Ready action.

It does not count as the attack action and the ready action itself does not count as an attack, the reaction would count as an attack if the trigger event occurs and it is in fact an attack.

For example:

You can not ready the attack action and then use the light property or the nick mastery and attack as a bonus action on your turn because you did not take the attack action.

If you ready an attack action as a Berzerker Barbarian, you don't do the extra Frenzy damage and if the trigger event never happens you did not attack and your Rage could end.

If you ready an attack action and use that off turn to grapple it does not count as an attack.

Also key to this discussion is you do not ready the Magic Action to cast a spell, you "ready a spell" as per the description in ready action and you are in fact casting the spell on your turn. If you ready another action, to include readying the Magic Action for something other than casting a spell, then that action occurs when the trigger event occurs, not on your turn.

It’s very clear that Ready doesn’t change the way the spell is cast - just when it takes effect. A benefit you get from spending the reaction. The benefit is that you get to cast at a more convenient time - that’s what the reaction gains you. Nothing more.

Exactly. You cast it and it takes effect when you release it upon the trigger event happening. It does not force you to take a Magic Action or any other extra action you would not normally take.

 

[ECMO3]

What if they did it the other way, use Action Surge to ready an action to cast a spell when it's not their turn, then use the Magic Action to cast a spell?

Ok there is a nuance here. You always cast the spell on your turn. You can not ready an action to cast a spell when it is not your turn. This is unique to casting a spell.

Going by the wording in the rules:
1. You action surge and take the Ready Action to ready a spell, you cast that spell now when you take the ready action and start concentrating. This spell is not released yet.

2. You use your other action to cast another spell with the Magic Action. This spell takes effect immediately.

3. When the trigger event happens the spell you readied is "released" and takes effect if you choose to use your reaction to release it.

This works as long as the second spell you cast with your action does not require concentration.

 

[Charlaquin]

This is an older post but worth saying that

This is circular logic. You’re saying they’re different because one can be used to with action surge and the other can’t. But the only reason it can be used with action surge is because you’re saying they’re different.

You haven’t actually identified any reason why Ready to use a magic item and Magic action to use an item are different in the rules other than the title. If that is the only difference then I hope your can understand why that is an insufficient justification for a lot of people.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

It’s not just a separate name, it’s an entirely separate listing in the “actions” section of the rules glossary