D&D 5E (2024) Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024

[Mort]

Glamour Bard is not listed either, yet the text for the subclass says they can cast Command as a Bonus Action. The text for the Eldritch Knight says they can use the Attack action to cast spells with a casting time of 1 action.

Similarly, the Ready action states you can ready a spell with a casting time of 1 action.

Except the ready action says you cast the spell "as normal" and limits the spell to 1 action spells. The "cast as normal...," to me means as a magic action. How do you cast a 1 action spell normally? As a magic action. Otherwise it would just say as an action, not "as normal."

Again, certainly not iron clad, but, to me, makes more sense than reading it otherwise.

 

[Charlaquin]

The Ready Action REQUIRES a different action to be declared for use at the trigger.

Correct.

You cannot use the Magic Action at the trigger because there is no spellcasting going on.

Spellcasting is something the Magic Action allows, not something required in order to perform the Magic Action.

You are arguing that you are preparing the Ready Action to be used at the Ready Action trigger,

No, I’m not. I’m arguing that you’re using the Ready Action, which allows you to perform a different Action as a Reaction in response to a trigger. When the Action you declare you want to perform allows you to cast a spell, you do the casting part on your turn. That’s what the rules of the Ready action very clearly say. That this is not how spells otherwise work is just run-of-the-mill specific beating general.

and that's not how Ready Action works. You ready to do something else.

Yes. In this case, to release the spell that you cast with the Ready Action and then held to be released in response to a later trigger.

Since the Magic Action can't be used at the trigger since there is no spellcasting going on, when does the Magic Action happen?

The Magic Action happens as a Reaction in response to a later trigger, as per the specific rules for using the Ready Action to cast a spell.

 

[Maxperson]

Correct.

Spellcasting is something the Magic Action allows, not something required in order to perform the Magic Action.

No, I’m not. I’m arguing that you’re using the Ready Action, which allows you to perform a different Action as a Reaction in response to a trigger. When the Action you declare you want to perform allows you to cast a spell, you do the casting part on your turn. That’s what the rules of the Ready action very clearly say. That this is not how spells otherwise work is just run-of-the-mill specific beating general.

Yes. In this case, to release the spell that you cast with the Ready Action and then held to be released in response to a later trigger.

The Magic Action happens as a Reaction in response to a later trigger, as per the specific rules for using the Ready Action to cast a spell.

Would you quote the Magic action Language for me please? I don't have a 5.5e PHB and I'd like to see if the language states that spellcasting is optional for it.

 

[ECMO3]

Except the ready action says you cast the spell "as normal" and limits the spell to 1 action spells. The "cast as normal...," to me means as a magic action. How do you cast a 1 action spell normally? As a magic action. Otherwise it would just say as an action, not "as normal."

I disagree with this, I think this applies to the mechanics of casting the spell itself, not the action used. The action used is just an abstaction for the mechanics.

It has to be this way because you can not take 2 actions on your turn and you need to cast the spell on your turn.

 

[ECMO3]

Would you quote the Magic action Language for me please? I don't have a 5.5e PHB and I'd like to see if the language states that spellcasting is optional for it.

Table:
Cast a spell, use a magic item, or use a magical feature

Rules Glossary:
When you take the Magic action, you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action or use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated.

If we are looking at language an important thing to note is magical class and subclass features in the description of those features do state "As a Magic action ....."* while spells only state casting time "action", not "Magic action" in their description.

* Example, Cleric Feature Divine Spark: "As a Magic action, you point your Holy Symbol at another creature you can see within 30 feet of yourself and focus divine energy at it."

This is very consistent in 5.5E.

Also in the DMG magic items that cast spells do NOT generally state you can use a Magic Action to cast XXX. They say while you are holding this item you can cast XXX, while magic items that do not cast spells do state you can use a magic action to XXXX

For example

Staff of Fire, no mention of magic action: The staff has 10 charges. While holding the staff, you can cast one of the spells on the following table from it,

Staff of The Python specifies Magic action: As a Magic action, you can throw this staff so that it lands in an unoccupied space within 10 feet of you, causing the....

 

[Charlaquin]

Except the ready action says you cast the spell "as normal" and limits the spell to 1 action spells. The "cast as normal...," to me means as a magic action.

It can’t be the Magic Action because you’ve already used your Action to perform the Ready Action. “Cast as normal” therefore can only mean perform the spellcasting components and spend the spell slot (or magic item charge or species/class/feat feature usage).

How do you cast a 1 action spell normally? As a magic action.

No, the Magic Action allows you to cast a spell “as normal.” That’s its effect. The Ready Action also allows you to cast a spell as normal, but then requires you to concentrate on it until a specified trigger occurs before it can take effect.

Otherwise it would just say as an action, not "as normal."

Why would it say as an Action? You’ve already taken an Action. The Ready Action.

Again, certainly not iron clad, but, to me, makes more sense than reading it otherwise.

My reading seems pretty ironclad IMO.

 

[Charlaquin]

Would you quote the Magic action Language for me please? I don't have a 5.5e PHB and I'd like to see if the language states that spellcasting is optional for it.

Gladly!

When you take the Magic action, you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action or use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated.

If you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 minute or longer, you must take the Magic action on each turn of that casting, and you must maintain Concentration while you do so. If your Concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don’t expend a spell slot. See also “Concentration.”

 

[Mort]

I disagree with this, I think this applies to the mechanics of casting the spell itself, not the action used. The action used is just an abstaction for the mechanics.

It has to be this way because you can not take 2 actions on your turn and you need to cast the spell on your turn.

To me, that's part of the point.

Assuming they are different:

To disallow the magic action, but to allow the ready action, even though it's performed exactly like the magic action (how else to interpret cast as normal) - makes no sense to me.

 

[Charlaquin]

To me, that's part of the point.

Assuming they are different:

To disallow the magic action, but to allow the ready action, even though it's performed exactly like the magic action (how else to interpret cast as normal) - makes no sense to me.

Well, it isn’t performed exactly like the Magic Action. The Magic Action causes the spell to take effect immediately if its casting time is 1 action, or makes 1 turn of progress towards the casting time if it’s longer than 1 action. Whereas the Ready action can only be used to cast a spell with a casting time of 1 Action, and requires you to concentrate on the spell until a specified trigger occurs, at which point you can spend a Reaction to use the Magic Action and cause the spell to take effect. Otherwise, the spell fails and the resources spent to cast it are wasted.

 

[Maxperson]

Gladly!

When you take the Magic action, you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action or use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated.

If you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 minute or longer, you must take the Magic action on each turn of that casting, and you must maintain Concentration while you do so. If your Concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don’t expend a spell slot. See also “Concentration.”

Thanks. That's not worded as to allow spellcasting or the use of an item to be an optional activity. You would have to start casting the spell or using the magic item in the moment of the trigger for your position to be correct, except it's done by RAW during the PC's turn. The only way to reconcile those two facts is for the Magic Action to be done on the PC's turn and only the release happens at the trigger.

What you are proposing is that the Ready Action allows the spell to be fully cast or magic item to be used to fully cast a spell during the PC's turn, and then when the Magic Action happens later, no spell is cast and no magic item is used. The wording you listed does not allow for the Magic Action to be taken and no spell or magic item be used when the action is taken.