D&D 5E (2024) Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024

[Charlaquin]

I've been thinking about that a little further. This is very clearly a case of specific beats general. The Ready Action explicitly says that you take a different action.

No, it says you choose a different action that you will take when the specified trigger occurs.

 

[TheSword]

Ready Action: Any spell you can cast I can cast better. I can cast anything better than you.

Magic Action: No you cant

Ready Action: Yes I can

Magic Action: No you can’t

Ready Action: Yes I can

Magic Action: No you can’t

Ready Action: Yes I can, Yes I can, Yes I can!

 

[TheSword]

It doesn’t really require litigation. There are two potential interpretations here, both of which can pretty reasonably be arrived at from the text, and because this is the internet, people who have arrived at each of those different interpretations are trying to prove each other wrong, and that’s what requires litigation. In an actual gameplay context, the DM would either say “yes” or “no,” and in either case a player trying to dispute the ruling with the sorts of arguments we’re making here would be equally disruptive behavior.

As to whether a “yes” is potentially unbalancing, it definitely isn’t. Given the choice between using your Action Surge to use the Attack Action (likely allowing multiple attacks, since you’re a Fighter), while being able to maintain your concentration on any active buff or damage over time spells, and keep your Reaction available for an Opportunity Attack, or to give all of that up for a chance to cast one spell, if the trigger occurs before the start of your next turn and you haven’t lost concentration by then… I don’t know about you, but it’s a pretty rare case where I would pick the latter option. And let’s not forget, this is only possible when the spell you want to cast comes from a magic item or race/class/feat feature that lets you cast a spell without a spell slot.

That in your opinion it isn’t unbalanced, is not a justification to say it’s a good face value reading of the rule.

You might think it’s balanced but the Devs clearly didn’t want two spells to be cast with Action Surge whether by spellcasting or magic item. Which is why they specifically excluded that in the new version of Action Surge. They don’t want fighters to be better spell casters than single classed spell casters which seems right and sensible.

Spending a reaction is the benefit you get from being able to affect something in the future that hasn’t happened yet. That’s the payoff. That’s what the reaction gets you. The same as for a move, or an attack, or a hide. One reaction in exchange for the option to wait and see. I cannot see why you think this also justifies giving additional benefits on top of that to exclude the clear and intentional restrictions of Action Surge for Magic Item use.

This feels like an attempt to use semantics to try and get around those. Which the OP himself acknowledges was a workaround. I guess when there is any ambiguity, no matter how small, some folks want to push the boundaries. Always been that way, always will be. I’m just glad I don’t have those kinds of players at my tables and in my experience they seem pretty rare.

As said earlier I think people search the internet when stuff like this comes. Both for table rulings but also exploits they can use on an unsuspecting DM and I think many of us want it to be clear that this is a controversial use and no DM should feel obliged to permit it in their games.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I think another section needs to be bolded here. Specifically: "When you take the Magic action, you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action...".

Now bear with me, because I want to go over every point carefully.

Let's assume this is a valid reading of the rules: if the spell's casting time is other than "an action", it's not the Magic action. We see this with shield and counterspell, naturally, but also with Warcaster and the War Magic feature of the Eldritch Knight.

Logically, casting a spell using your reaction via the Ready Action would work the same way, ie, we're not using the Magic Action. But then we have this pesky "cast the spell as normal" rule which doesn't define what "as normal" means in this instance. Is it "as normal" by the spellcasting rules? "As normal" for the person casting the spell?

The argument in play is that Ready turns the Magic Action into a Reaction, despite the fact the rules don't explicitly say this (the assumption is that it is implicit by the "as normal" wording). The rules for Readying a spell are even more murky, as they state you begin casting the spell, but the spell doesn't go off until you use your Reaction, and if your concentration is interrupted. The spell slot and components are consumed when you Ready the spell.

All well and good, but the original question has to do not with casting a spell, but a magic item, and this is where things get sticky:

"Some magic items allow the user to cast a spell from the item. The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn't expend any of the user's spell slots, and requires no components, unless the item's description says otherwise. The spell uses its normal casting time, range, and duration, and the user of the item must concentrate if the spell requires concentration."

The Wand of Magic Missile: "This wand has 7 charges. While holding it, you can use an action to expend 1 or more of its charges to cast the magic missile spell from it. For 1 charge, you cast the 1st-level version of the spell. You can increase the spell slot level by one for each additional charge you expend."

With this item, the user isn't really casting the spell. The Wand is casting the spell when the user uses an action to expend one of its charges. Ok, following me so far? Here's where it gets weird.

It's time for another confusing Dev Tweet!

Using a Wand does not use the spell rule in Ready!

So what on Earth does that mean, exactly? Let's look at the rule again:

"When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and holding onto the spell's magic requires concentration."

So, in summary, readying to use a Wand or Staff does not require concentration, does not use a spell slot, is not "cast normally". So what does this mean?

Some possibilities: you can't Ready a Wand or Staff! Hardly likely, but I had to mention it.

Alternately, you can Quicken a Spell that uses a Spell Slot, casting it with a Bonus Action, and still use the Magic Action to use a Wand/Staff, since charges =/= spell slots.

Or maybe Jeremy doesn't know what he's talking about, and spell slots = charges.

And finally, it's possible that if Readying a Wand/Staff is not "casting a spell as normal", then you're not using the Magic Action at all, even when using the extra action of Action Surge to Ready it!

(Insert Jeremy doesn't know what he's talking about again).

TLDR: went over rules, found dev tweet, nothing is explained. We're back to square one, making a ruling on (presumed) designer intent when the designer intent is not made obvious.

The 2024 version of the staff just says you can cast the spell. Nothing about any action.

 

[TheSword]

The 2024 version of the staff just says you can cast the spell. Nothing about any action.

So it doesn’t require an action to use it working with merely a thought? Or do you think that it defaults to the Magic Action as per the Magic item introduction?

 

[TheSword]

Interesting Sage advice as well thanks for sharing. If readying a magic item spell doesn’t even expend charges or require concentration that further undermines the balance argument and all the more reason to take a less permissive around the ambiguity.