D&D 5E (2024) Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024

[Teemu]

@Charlaquin

Sorry I made an edit on my post, which is here:

I use Action Surge to Ready the Cube of Summoning Magic action, and the trigger is when Enemy 1 attacks me. Then I move out of Enemy 1's reach.

Enemy 1 takes the Opportunity Attack. Reaction trigger occurs, but it's still my turn, so I can't use the Cube of Summoning because it's still my turn and it's a Magic action?

That's a weird situation that happens when you allow Readying a Magic action with Action Surge. It sounds so bizarre to me that it's okay if the Reaction happens outside your turn, but if it's during your turn, it's not okay anymore.

 

[Charlaquin]

@Charlaquin

Sorry I made an edit on my post, which is here:

I use Action Surge to Ready the Cube of Summoning Magic action, and the trigger is when Enemy 1 attacks me. Then I move out of Enemy 1's reach.

Enemy 1 takes the Opportunity Attack. Reaction trigger occurs, but it's still my turn, so I can't use the Cube of Summoning because it's still my turn and it's a Magic action?

That's a weird situation that happens when you allow Readying a Magic action with Action Surge. It sounds so bizarre to me that it's okay if the Reaction happens outside your turn, but if it's during your turn, it's not okay anymore.

Huh. I mean, yeah, I guess that’s technically consistent with the wording. Though, I would say that the intent of the restriction seems to me to be to prevent you from using the Magic Action with the extra action granted by Action Surge, rather than specifically to prevent you from doing it on your turn. So, I would probably allow this. But, yeah, it would technically not be allowed by RAW in my understanding.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Loophole implies a thing that you aren’t supposed to be able to do, but under some technicality you’ve managed to get away with doing anyway. I don’t see this as a loophole because (in my interpretation) it’s just straightforwardly allowed.

To me it is a workaround of a restriction. Thus a loophole.

I try to not use exploit, because that implies more criminal energy.

Finding workarounds is not necessarily bad.

Even if you don’t agree, I think my interpretation is one that could easily be arrived at from an unmotivated natural reading of the rules, not necessarily from a desire to circumvent a limitation.

Maybe.

This is why we would have a friendly talk about that. Like we have now.
I would not even tell you that you are wrong. And I won't say my interpretation is correct. We just come to doifferent conclusions.

My natural reading is different. My assumptions about RAI is different.

And even if your interpretation was the only true one (which I disagree with) , I might say, that we play it differently at our table.

We would probably find an agreement.

Or we would walk away and play on different tables.

 

[Teemu]

Huh. I mean, yeah, I guess that’s technically consistent with the wording. Though, I would say that the intent of the restriction seems to me to be to prevent you from using the Magic Action with the extra action granted by Action Surge, rather than specifically to prevent you from doing it on your turn. So, I would probably allow this. But, yeah, it would technically not be allowed by RAW in my understanding.

Right, but you agree that the purpose of the limit is to stop Magic actions with Action Surge? Because that was the draw in 2014 with multiclassing, to use Action Surge to cast 2 spells during your turn. In 2024 they updated Action Surge so that it's much less attractive as a multiclass dip for spellcasters. High level Eldritch Knights and some other subclasses do get to replace attacks with spells, but they're always cantrips or very low level spells. That's obviously on purpose.

Because of that, wouldn't it just make more sense that the intent is to prevent Action Surge and Magic action no matter what? If you do that, you never have to worry about Ready triggers that are too clever and easy, or them happening during your own turn.

 

[Charlaquin]

To me it is a workaround of a restriction. Thus a loophole.

I try to not use exploit, because that implies more criminal energy.

Finding workarounds is not necessarily bad.

What I’m saying is, I think it’s a completely different thing than what’s being restricted. Like, to use an analogy, would you say that eating a plant-based meat substitute like Beyond Meat is a “loophole” around the restriction against eating meat during lent? I wouldn’t, because it isn’t meat. That it is similar in taste to meat doesn’t make it a loophole, it’s just a different thing that the restriction doesn’t cover or even attempt to cover. On the other hand, eating beaver meat during lent, because the Catholic Church defines beavers as fish (specifically to allow eating them during lent in places where fish are hard to come by*) is absolutely a loophole. A workaround to the restriction that allows you to functionally get away with doing the thing you aren’t supposed to be allowed to do, because weasely definitions of “meat” and “fish” give you plausible deniability.

*thats a real thing by the way! I didn’t just make it up

 

[mamba]

The more this goes on, the more I think I had the right idea in the ‘what does your 6e look like’ thread when I wrote we need a better action economy than action, bonus action, and reaction

 

[Charlaquin]

The more this goes on, the more I think I had the right idea in the ‘what does your 6e look like’ thread when I wrote we need a better action economy than action, bonus action, and reaction

I love PF2’s three-action (and one reaction) economy. That’s probably my single favorite thing about the system.

 

[ECMO3]

wait, are you saying you are not using the Magic Action at all when you Ready a spell, not even as a reaction?

I am saying that yes.

Ready a spell is specific and different from the normal use of the Ready action.

 

[ECMO3]

@Charlaquin @ECMO3

If you're under the effect of Befuddlement, which says,

"can’t cast spells or take the Magic action"

Could you on your turn Ready to use any of the following?

No all of those require the Magic action. You ready the Magic action you take it as your reaction.

When you Ready a spell you use different and specific rules that only apply to Readying a spell and you do not use the Magic action.

As a matter of fact the reason it says "can't cast spells" is to make it clear you can't use other actions like the Ready action to cast them.

 

[mamba]

I am saying that yes.

wasn’t directed at you, but since you replied…

What action is being taken as the reaction in this paragraph (bolded ‘action’ by me for clarity) “First, you decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your Reaction. Then, you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose to move up to your Speed in response to it.” ?