D&D 5E (2024) Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024

[Maxperson]

That seems to be the only distinction, 'cast spell' is used when it is an existing spell I can look up and 'use Magic action' is used when it is a unique effect. Of course a spell usually also requires the Magic action to cast, see the PHB

"Most spells require the Magic action to cast, but some spells require a Bonus Action, a Reaction, or 1 minute or more. A spell’s Casting Time entry specifies which of those is required." So any spell with a duration of action requires the Magic action to cast anyway.

That makes sense. It's their excuse for why taking the spell fireball from an NPC and instead giving it the Bloom of Fire(or whatever) that has the exact same numbers as fireball keeps it from being spellcasting.

 

[ECMO3]

*And this leads me to a special bonus round question! When the Molydeus casts a spell with it's Legendary Action, is it taking the Magic Action?

Legendary Action Uses: 3. Immediately after another creature's turn, The molydeus can expend a use to take one of the following actions. The molydeus regains all expended uses at the start of each of its turns.

Attack. The molydeus makes one attack, either with its demonic weapon or with its snakebite.

Move. The molydeus moves without provoking opportunity attacks.

Cast a Spell. The molydeus casts one spell from its Innate Spellcasting trait.

I would say it is pretty clear it is NOT the Magic Action.

 

[ECMO3]

I was thinking of ones that 'cast spells' or otherwise trigger spell-like efects some way, like the Staff of The Python example, not things like +1 sword.

Examples:

Staff of Fire
"Spells. The staff has 10 charges. While holding the staff, you can cast one of the spells..."

Staff of Flowers
"This wooden staff has 10 charges. While holding it, you can take a Magic action to expend 1 charge from the staff"

without going through many examples, the only difference I see is that one has existing spells (Staff of Fire) while the other has a unique effect that is not an existing spell.

See e.g. the Staff of Swarming Insects that has both uses

"Insect Cloud. While holding the staff, you can take a Magic action and expend 1 charge to cause a swarm of harmless flying insects"

"Spells. While holding the staff, you can cast one of the spells on the following table from it"

That seems to be the only distinction, 'cast spell' is used when it is an existing spell I can look up and 'use Magic action' is used when it is a unique effect. Of course a spell usually also requires the Magic action to cast, see the PHB

"Most spells require the Magic action to cast, but some spells require a Bonus Action, a Reaction, or 1 minute or more. A spell’s Casting Time entry specifies which of those is required." So any spell with a duration of action requires the Magic action to cast anyway.

Yeah so the numbers I posted are the numbers I calcuated for those. Many more use the Magic action.

For the most part this is correct, in most cases if it is a spell it says you can cast XXXX while if it is not an actual spell it says use a Magic action to XXX

There are very few cases where it tells you that you can cast a spell from an item by using a Magic action (Cape of the Monteback, Axe of the Dwarven Lords) which would be redundant if you have to use the Magic action anyway. Why did they state a few items that cast spells do it with the Magic action, and then not specify it for the vast majority of items that cast spells?

 

[BenjaminPey]

There are very few cases where it tells you that you can cast a spell from an item by using a Magic action (Cape of the Monteback, Axe of the Dwarven Lords) which would be redundant if you have to use the Magic action anyway. Why did they state a few items that cast spells do it with the Magic action, and then not specify it for the vast majority of items that cast spells?

I'd say because they modify the spell. The cape leaves behind a cloud of smoke, the axe conjures an Earth Elemental (so it's not the spell Conjure Elemental). So they are not exaclty the spells listed in the PHB, they just use their definition to encapsulate the effects produced.
Or it might be an oversight, of course, for these very rare instances.

In my view, casting a spell of one action = using a magic action, as per the general rule. Otherwise, which action would you take when you use a scroll for a 1-action spell, for instance? Utilize? But it is not said anywhere. My guess: it is not said because it's the Magic action.

And the restriction on Action surge is exaclty there to prevent a double-use of these items in the same turn, maybe as a form of niche protection for thieves (who can, and it's too strong).

 

[mamba]

There are very few cases where it tells you that you can cast a spell from an item by using a Magic action (Cape of the Monteback, Axe of the Dwarven Lords) which would be redundant if you have to use the Magic action anyway. Why did they state a few items that cast spells do it with the Magic action, and then not specify it for the vast majority of items that cast spells?

I have no idea, but since the Magic action is required to cast spells of the duration ‘action’ the two are basically synonymous anyway

Guess @BenjaminPey has the right answer, these are not the actual spells but item specific features, just like all the others that use that term, it’s just that their feature confusingly has the same name as a spell

 

[ECMO3]

I have no idea, but since the Magic action is required to cast spells of the duration ‘action’ the two are basically synonymous anyway

It is not though. There are numerous exceptions to that - Quicken Spell, War Magic, Mantle of Majesty, Battle Magic, War Caster, Contingency ....

IMO Ready a Spell is another one of those exceptions.

Guess @BenjaminPey has the right answer, these are not the actual spells but item specific features, just like all the others that use that term, it’s just that their feature confusingly has the same name as a spell

It says it for the Demonocon of Iggwilv too and that does not change the spell at all.

I think it is because of the action, not the casting. You are using an item in a unique fasion to cause the magic item to cast the spell as opposed to just casting the spell and the designers want you to need to do a magic action for those items and not for the other ones that don't say it.

If it always requires a Magic Action anyway it is still redundant.

 

[BenjaminPey]

It says it for the Demonocon of Iggwilv too and that does not change the spell at all.

It changes the DC.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

I think the real travesty happened when D&D introduced the concept of different action types (3rd edition, I think?).

Horrible idea, IMO. Back when it was just rounds, even ignoring segments, which I never used, gameplay was MUCH quicker and easier for everyone at the table to digest.

Not every change is a progressive evolution. Some are simply bad/unnecessary ideas.

I admit that I'm somewhat sad that it took 23 pages for someone to comment that older editions did it better. What have we become.

While I don't have a horse in this race, I hope I never play at the same table with someone that says "I can't cast it as an action? HOW ABOUT AS A REACTION?". It's my equivalent of "I can't do this while flying? HA! WHAT IF I JUMP OFF THE BUILDING INSTEAD THEN I'M FALLING NOT FLYING HAHA ITS DIFFERENT SO THE RULES ALLOW IT AND I'TS NOT A LOT OF DAMAGE TO ME ANYWAY HAHA WHY ARE YOU PACKING YOUR BAGS AND OPENING THE DOOR DON'T GO."

 

[mamba]

It is not though. There are numerous exceptions to that - Quicken Spell, War Magic, Mantle of Majesty, Battle Magic, War Caster, Contingency

from the PHB “Most spells require the Magic action to cast, but some spells require a Bonus Action, a Reaction, or 1 minute or more. A spell’s Casting Time entry specifies which of those is required.”

 

[Charlaquin]

from the PHB “Most spells require the Magic action to cast, but some spells require a Bonus Action, a Reaction, or 1 minute or more. A spell’s Casting Time entry specifies which of those is required.”

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