Using Jenga for Action Points/Sanity

[talien]

You know, I've actually had thoughts on the same subject. I like the idea of completely replacing d20 action points with Jenga pulls: There's no need to keep track of points when each pull brings you (or another player) closer to a fumble or other consequence. You could also complicate it further by making pulls from lower on the tower more valuable than higher pulls, since (I'm almost certain) they're riskier. Or maybe later pulls should be more valuable, since risk definitely goes up as the tower loses bricks.

It occurs to me that action points replaced with Jenga pulls is going to significantly slow down a game, not to mention a game that's going to involve dice rolling as well as pulls. So I think I'd have to rule that the pulls come at the end of the combat (and thus could have bad effects later, not during the actual combat itself) or not use it for action points. Especially someone wanting to give themselves a +6 bonus could crawl the game to a halt.

It's a good point about pulls from higher or lower in the tower, or duration of the pulls, but I kind of like that as a holistic bonus/penalty than something I have to figure out. If I'm figuring things out with Jenga, I'm back to figuring in modifiers for dice rolls which I could just do with dice.

I think I'm okay with the idea of rebuilding the tower after it's toppled, but the big risk there would be that players might deliberately wreck a shaky tower on an inconsequential roll so that it'll be rebuilt and sturdy when they need to pull for something important. ...But I guess making the consequences for tumbling the tower harsh even when the "action point" is being used for something minor could fix that.

Yep, that's a real problem. Like I said, making whatever the roll is automatically turn into a fumble might be a good start, but even then, if the tower gets rebuilt, I can think of at least one player who would rather wreck the tower and start over (risking that I wouldn't just outright kill him). That's where Dread gets it right -- the tower falling is truly disastrous. I like the idea of something bad happening (fumble) and not being able to use it again...if you're only using it for Action Points.

With Sanity, it's entirely different. The consequences of the tower failing are even worse (temporary insanity, as I see fit, MUAHAHAH) and rebuilding also makes sense. With one insane PC, I don't want multiple insane PCs and like the idea of a "buffer" after the insanity disaster before another one happens.

Combining the two creates an interesting give and take, with risks on one side for proactive actions and penalties on the other side for those same risks. Do you take chances by being gung-ho, thereby ensuring that you'll go completely bonkers later? Or do you play it safe and act less heroic, in the hopes that this will ave your sanity in the long-term?

Still a problem with using Jenga pulls during a d20 combat though.

I think that, basically, nobody does that stuff at a Dread game. Certainly, there's no dice-rolling, since the tower replaces all of that. And the whole nature of the mechanic (and the intended atmosphere of the game) is probably enough to get most players to settle down and be careful. (I wonder if there's a rule about knocking over the tower when it's not even your turn to make a pull. I bet there is.)

Okay let me just come out and say it -- the PC I worry about most is Kham's player (for those of you who read my story hour). He's a hyperactive ball of energy and the odds of him knocking the tower over accidentally are high. I would put the Jenga tower on a different table or counter -- somewhere flat and stable, and most importantly away from dice rolling.

I think if he knocked it over, I'd inflict him with temporary insanity at my own choosing. His character's background lends itself to this quite nicely--you'll see when I launch my modern story hour.

 

[talien]

The hysteresis inherent in the Jenga tower can cause ordering issues. If the entire party needs to make saves against some AoE (or sanity loss effect), and the tower is new, the first person to make their save has a huge advantage. If the tower is teetering, the last person will probably be gifted with a new tower. If you only have 2 PCs, it probably isn't a big issue. If you have 6, it *will* come up.

Excellent point!

I've been thinking about this too. I'd probably go in order of Will saves (highest goes first, lowest goes last). The guy who's on shaky ground mentally is going to be the one most likely to crack anyway.

This does double-penalize the PC in a way. He's getting nailed for having a low Will save (and thus possibly losing more sanity for failing his safe) as well as pulling last. But perhaps that's as it should be.

This thread has given me a lot of food for thought!

 

[Delta]

I've been struggling with the concept of sanity points since I mentioned it to my gaming group. They're not fond of the idea of keeping track of yet another mechanic (or action points for that matter), but some players like the idea of mental and emotional risk.

Without addressing the Jenga issue, and without actually using Sanity in my game -- when I saw the Sanity rules in UA it seemed pretty clear to me that it would be more like a d20 System mechanic if you just converted all the checks to Will saves, and all the points lost to Wisdom damage (divide book entries by 5). So then it doesn't feel like a new mechanic, it's just another kind of ability damage.

 

[talien]

I've used the Wisdom ability damage before, even made it a drain instead of damage. The problem is that you can fix drains/damage with simple spells -- this bothered me so much I wrote an article about how to resolve it for Pyramid.

But basically, I like the idea of sanity and the Jenga tower physically representing it. I also like the idea of a mechanic that binds a team together. Especially in our RPG group, it's too easy for a PC to go his separate way without worrying about the results of his actions on his comrades. The Tower of Sanity achieves this quite nicely.

I'll be testing this out in a few weeks to see how it works and report back with the results.

 

[Felnar]

the current height of the tower could be used to figure the bonus granted (i.e. more risk, more reward)

also, you dont have to use all the blocks, maybe only 6 rows high.
you'd still have to give out lots more action points for any real chance of collapse

 

[Mark]

the idea of using Jenga (or another game; pickup-sticks maybe) is interesting
but i just cant see enough action points being used each session for the tower to ever collapse

My players never fear using every point as fast and furious as they come by them. We advance quickly for various reasons so they tend to have more to spare than they would in a typical game. As for the Jenga mechanic, I think I might add that to a gameday game but have collapse result in character death.

 

[talien]

the current height of the tower could be used to figure the bonus granted (i.e. more risk, more reward)

also, you dont have to use all the blocks, maybe only 6 rows high.
you'd still have to give out lots more action points for any real chance of collapse

That's a great point. I'm not sure how Dread requires you to make pulls on the tower and if there's any benefit to a higher pull vs. a lower one.

As a note, I wouldn't make one pull = one action point. I think it should be the actual bonus you could get from the action point, which is up to six. Or to put it another way, it would be six pulls for a bonus of +6, or less for less of a bonus.

That should definitely spread out the risk, I think.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

As a note, I wouldn't make one pull = one action point. I think it should be the actual bonus you could get from the action point, which is up to six. Or to put it another way, it would be six pulls for a bonus of +6, or less for less of a bonus.

I like the idea of the DM either:

A) telling you thatt you need to keep pulling to have a chance, or
B) telling you how many pulls you need to succeed, and allowing you to choose to try.

B) worked great in PC's Gencon Jenga game - he told Barsoomcore at one point to make 5 pulls to do something ridiculously dangerous (run down rain slickened cliff-stairs with a dislocated shoulder while dead drunk), and it took him a while to do it; we could continue the game while he was totally focused on the task at hand, only stopping to see as he actually pulled the block(s).

The biggest problem I had with JengaDread, BTW, was the time it took to set the tower back up.

 

[adwyn]

Rather than the Jenga tower we have taken to using a children's game that has plastic straws stuck through a tube to form a lattice supporting a bunch of steel marbles. As the straws are pulled just a few to all of the marbles can fall. The big advantage is it is much more resistant to accidentally being knocked over.

 

[Felnar]

Rather than the Jenga tower we have taken to using a children's game that has plastic straws stuck through a tube to form a lattice supporting a bunch of steel marbles. As the straws are pulled just a few to all of the marbles can fall. The big advantage is it is much more resistant to accidentally being knocked over.

that sounds like the game 'Ker Plunk', if anyones interested in finding it