D&D 5E Using proficiency instead of dex for ac

[CubicsRube]

In the theme of radical ideas, what do you all think about removing the dex bonus to ac and instead providing proficiency? This would be capped at 2 for medium armor and 0 at heavy in the same method as dex.

What effedcts would you this having? I can see that wizards and other classes would have high base ac's at higher levels, but i dont find that a problem.

In fact it has the unexpected benefit of making medium armor viable until 5th level, or until 9th with medium armor master.

It also takes away some from dex being a god stat and makes it easier to consider dumping for other stats. It is still important for initiative and dex saving throws, but a character can dump dex and still not be a pin cushion.

Thoughts?

 

[Hillsy7]

In the theme of radical ideas, what do you all think about removing the dex bonus to ac and instead providing proficiency? This would be capped at 2 for medium armor and 0 at heavy in the same method as dex.

What effedcts would you this having? I can see that wizards and other classes would have high base ac's at higher levels, but i dont find that a problem.

In fact it has the unexpected benefit of making medium armor viable until 5th level, or until 9th with medium armor master.

It also takes away some from dex being a god stat and makes it easier to consider dumping for other stats. It is still important for initiative and dex saving throws, but a character can dump dex and still not be a pin cushion.

Thoughts?

I can easily Drop Dex.....Is my character capable of doing a backflip or pickpocketing a drunk? No? DEX < 12......

Ok, but seriously you'll be decoupling the melee decision balance for any class that isn't a rogue (because finesse weapon). If your AC increases with Prof, why would you limit yourself to a smaller dice weapon when you can always carry a Greataxe for absolutely no penalty whatsoever? In practice, it doesn't really affect much except beef up caster AC because anyone who doesn't melee attack isn't going to be affected by choosing between STR and DEX weapons.

Also, medium armour does what it needs to: provides a decent base level AC to classes without heavy armour Prof, and aren't DEX primary.....

 

[CubicsRube]

Dex is still important for dex saves such as area effect spells and traps, and of course initiative.

Rogue doesn't take a hit because they cant use sneak attack with non finesse weapons.

It also makes barbarians and monks less MAD. Particularlybarbarians who have had to divide asis between str dex and con. This way they can focus purely on STR and CON where most of their abilities are.

 

[Mephista]

Thoughts? I think you're mistaken on why Dex is considered a "god-stat." Its mainly because of adding into Initiative, and the bias towards ranged attacks being really good against melee only monsters, as well as the mistaken belief that Dexterity is a better save than Strength, mainly because of dragonbreath and certain iconic spells. Turns out? If you take out dragons, Strength is actually a more common save among monsters than Dexterity. Even including spells.

Adding Dex into AC is actually a DRAWBACK of the stat rather than a bonus. Heavy armored peeps have no deed of raising their stats for AC, and can invest in anything they want. It gives freedom. Dex-based characters need Dex for raising their AC, or they end up squishy.

The real reason for Dex being god stat is (basically) always going first combined with he ability to kite enemies at range, and never being hit. This alteration of yours is not really going to change anything for the better, imho. Sure, if you get into melee range, the dex-characters will really be squishier, but ultimately not that relevant for most of the time.

The big change is going to be for STR-based medium armor wearers, who now dump Dex, and for those with unarmored defense / mage armor, who's AC is now going to skyrocket. Which is worth considering.

So, lets consider. Barbarian now dumps Dex. His AC is bsaically going to be calcuated using either Unarmored Defense or Light Armor, depending if +x armor or high Con. Fair enough. This gives him a rather high AC as time goes on, and coupled with high HP/THP and damage reduction. Is this desirable from a game stand point? Its going to make them very, very tough. The lower AC tends to be seen as a balancing feature, not a bug.

Bards. Most bards either go pure caster, or Dex. From what I understand, even the new melee college (swords) is going to be about light finesse weapons rather than large weapons. We're going to be using Light Armor here mainly. And that's going to hurt the AC of the bards, pushing them more into ranged than melee, which isn't desirable. Valor bards, who get Medium Armor, can go Strength. This will indeed let them drop dex for the build, reducing a bit of MADness. So this will indeed make the bard a bit melee-enabled, if you're interested in that. However, it is something a bit out of the norm, so the benefits aren't great.

While we're on the subject of pure casters, lets talk about them for a tick. Most of them don't actually get hit, wear medium armor, or have something like Shield to protect themselves. Even Lore bards get Cutting Words to help defend themselves. It'll be an AC boost for most, but unnecessary - I've seen low Dex, low Con spellcasters do perfectly well and avoid most damage; if anything, it'll remove more threat, and making things a bit less of a danger, which I don't like. Clerics and druids seem to be the only ones who would be benefiting, and only if we're talking about wearing medium armor. Really won't be affecting anyone else, especially not the weapon-using, heavy armored clerics. Its been a while since I played a land druid or back row cleric, so I won't comment on how useful or not here.

Now, for caster-turned-melee people? Such as the bladesinger and blade'lock? Well... honestly they're both Dex-based because of AC concerns. Well, that and bladesinger is elven, which is a Dex race in the first place. But, putting racial restrictions aside, it will make it possible to have a bit more freedom with weapon choices with these melee casters.


Well, my final analysis is this - your proposed change is helpful for those that want to be a gish type, spawning from one of the full caster classes (except cleric, cause heavy armor), and allow them to be more flexible with weapon choices. I think it would be harmful in other cases.

 

[Hillsy7]

Dex is still important for dex saves such as area effect spells and traps, and of course initiative.

Rogue doesn't take a hit because they cant use sneak attack with non finesse weapons.

It also makes barbarians and monks less MAD. Particularly barbarians who have had to divide asis between str dex and con. This way they can focus purely on STR and CON where most of their abilities are.

I mention the Rogue in my post.

Monks don't need STR - basically all of their in built attack options (Unarmed & Monk weapons) are Finessable, and as such they get a nod of acknowledgement that DEX picks up their AC.....plus monks have loads of defensive and mobility options, so maxing out AC isn't an absolute must, meaning you can modestly balance their 3 main Stats. It's a perfectly acceptable design solution.

Barbarians already have ways to mitigate the issues with going for the loin cloth, lower DEX, approach because of Raging damage mitigation, Boosted saves (danger sense), initiative boost (feral instinct), and then the totem buffs. Barbarians aren't MAD because you can happily chug along with 10-12 in DEX, and thereby reasonably well balanced for their abilities.

As for the saves and initiatives, while that is true, it's also exactly the same for WIS and CHA saves (not as much INT), so I don't really see the point you're trying to make there? Decouple DEX from AC and melee characters only need to worry about STR and CON (Rogue aside), and the other 4 Stats behave the same (saves, skills and flavour)

 

[daimaru42]

And besides, dexterity is perfectly reasonable for boosting AC. Not being in the way when the axe comes down is a ~good~ thing and that's what it measures. Well, a dextrous person is going to be better with a shield too, right from the get go. Better at blocking all around. No, I like Dex in AC.