D&D 5E Using Subclasses at Level 1?

[Paul Farquhar]

No matter what I write for my backstory eldritch knight doesn't feel right because he is just as much of a mundane fighter as everyone else IMO. The cantrip change would do that, but there are other subclasses that have a similar effect?

Well, I chose a race that had a cantrip at level 1 anyway (Genasi). EK is kind of archetypically a High Elf. Obviously Arcane Trickster is similar.

Variant humans could get Magic Initiate or Ritual Caster at first level if it made them feel the character worked better that way.

The same issues with eldritch knight tend to apply for many barbarian subclasses as well.

I don't see an issue with barbarians, your barbarian probably has shamanistic beliefs from the start, and they only gradually become more magical, and that depends how you fluff it. A bear totem barbarian doesn't change into a bear, they are just as tough as a bear.

 

[Tony Vargas]

) we do several encounters before we can even get in a short rest and it is the same problem.

That's a start. See how the other two-thirds of the day go.

 

[5ekyu]

To me, when I make changes, I try to meet the goal with the least change and risk.

One of the reasons abilities get divided is an attempt to balance multiclassing dips.

Given that 1st and 2nd go so quickly, I see simply starting at 3rd (a place you will get to anyway fairly soon anyway) solves any sequencing of sbilities at 1-3 concerns without really requiring any work or risk.

It's not worth it to me to spend effort shuffling sbilities that will impact MC choices for levels 3-20 in order to fine tune those 1-2 levels. The work and the risk are out of whack with that approach.

To me at least.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Yeah, I am not a big fan of the "apprentice levels" concept that floats around about levels 1 and 2. If WotC wanted that as an option, I would have preferred a recasting of the 0-level concept for it.

One of the things that has always been an issue for me in 5E is characters rarely begin the game with a concept that feels fully formed. In some cases, not having the subclass at level 1 causes that. For example, we started a new game last night and I am playing an elven bladesinger. Oh, wait, no I am not. I am an elven wizard... because I am level one and have no bladesinging features or abilities until next level.

Another player has a lizardfolk beastmaster... oops! wrong again, he is a lizardfolk ranger because he won't get his beast until 3rd level. Rats! (Those aren't his beast, I think he is planning on a lizard of some sort).

Sure, it is only a level or two until those things are resolved, but damn that is annoying IMO.

I don't think reworking levels 1-3 will be that hard. I already have a rough draft done and might finish it today during the games.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Oh, wait, no I am not. I am an elven wizard... because I am level one and have no bladesinging features or abilities until next level.

Another player has a lizardfolk beastmaster... oops! wrong again, he is a lizardfolk ranger because he won't get his beast until 3rd level.

This is what I mean by needing to change the way you look at class powers. Your bladesinger is a bladesinger at level 1 because they know how to cast wizard spells. The fact that Illusionists also know how to cast wizard spells is irrelevant. Your character can cast wizard spells because they are a bladesinger.

 

[GlassJaw]

This is what I mean by needing to change the way you look at class powers. Your bladesinger is a bladesinger at level 1 because they know how to cast wizard spells. The fact that Illusionists also know how to cast wizard spells is irrelevant. Your character can cast wizard spells because they are a bladesinger.

You keep harping on this and I simply don't agree. I'm with dnd4vr. I want to feel like my character concept right out of the gate.

I don't think reworking levels 1-3 will be that hard. I already have a rough draft done and might finish it today during the games.

Agreed. Looking forward to seeing it!

 

[DND_Reborn]

This is what I mean by needing to change the way you look at class powers. Your bladesinger is a bladesinger at level 1 because they know how to cast wizard spells. The fact that Illusionists also know how to cast wizard spells is irrelevant. Your character can cast wizard spells because they are a bladesinger.

But they really aren't. They might be "training" to be a bladesinger or something, but they are no different mechancially from any other elven wizard at level 1. That is what I mean by I don't like "apprentice" or training levels in this sense. As others have commented online, the same is true for the eldritch knight at levels 1 and 2, they are NO different from any other fighters and it isn't until level 3 that they have finally earned that distinction.

 

[DND_Reborn]

You keep harping on this and I simply don't agree. I'm with dnd4vr. I want to feel like my character concept right out of the gate.

Agreed. Looking forward to seeing it!

Exactly! I'll really try to get it wrapped up today and post it sometime before I go to bed.

 

[DND_Reborn]

@GlassJaw :

My schedule changed and I had time to polish this up this morning. Some things can be tweaked to personal preference of course (like switching Fighting Style and Second Wind), this is just my initial take on it:

 

[GlassJaw]

So I’m assuming that with this, you are simply granting all the initial subclass abilities at 1st level, correct?

Might be a little more interesting to break them up, or even add an ability here and there.

Another thing that bugs me about subclasses is that for some classes, the abilities are really spread out. For example, the rogue had a huge gap: it get subclass abilities at 3 and then not until 9. That sucks.