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Using Wands/Staves and Misty Step

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
The action of using a magic item is not the same action as casting a spell. They are 2 distinct and different actions.

True but irrelevant in this particular case. Let me give an example elsewhere. Say you had up Hex, which adds +d6 necrotic damage whenever you hit the target with an attack. That extra damage does not care if you hit with an attack with the Attack action, with the Cast a Spell action to attack with Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade, or with a reaction to make an Opportunity Attack. Or even with a bonus action if you were dual wielding or had Polearm mastery. Similarly, the limitations on a bonus action spell do not care what the action is used, you simply can not cast another spell during the same turn with the exception of a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.

The magic item is casting the spell NOT YOU. It's the same as using a potion. The potion is giving the spell effect, NOT YOU. You are not using any verbal, somatic, or material components when you use a magic item. Ultimately it comes down to what your DM thinks.

Potions are a different category and have different rules, so I won't deal with that. But using a wad/staff specifically calls out in all their descriptions things like "While hold it, YOU can expend 1 charge as an action to cast the XX spell from it". In some, like the Wand of Magic Missiles it's even clearer "For 1 charge, you cast the 1st level version of the spell."

So where we are is that (a) the action type doesn't matter, and (b) you are the caster using an item.
 

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neogod22

Explorer
True but irrelevant in this particular case. Let me give an example elsewhere. Say you had up Hex, which adds +d6 necrotic damage whenever you hit the target with an attack. That extra damage does not care if you hit with an attack with the Attack action, with the Cast a Spell action to attack with Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade, or with a reaction to make an Opportunity Attack. Or even with a bonus action if you were dual wielding or had Polearm mastery. Similarly, the limitations on a bonus action spell do not care what the action is used, you simply can not cast another spell during the same turn with the exception of a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.



Potions are a different category and have different rules, so I won't deal with that. But using a wad/staff specifically calls out in all their descriptions things like "While hold it, YOU can expend 1 charge as an action to cast the XX spell from it". In some, like the Wand of Magic Missiles it's even clearer "For 1 charge, you cast the 1st level version of the spell."

So where we are is that (a) the action type doesn't matter, and (b) you are the caster using an item.
I'm not sure why I'm just getting the reply, but you are wrong here. The reason you are wrong is because the rules are specific. Casting a spell and using a magic items are 2 different actions. The rules say "you cannot cast 2 spells. It does not say you can't use a magic item or drink a potion. This is why some magic items have save DCs, because it's the strength of the magic item the person has to beat, not the strength of you and your spell casting ability. The difference in real world would be, you trying to do a complicated math equation in your head vs typing the numbers on a calculator. The calculator can do it much faster, and it doesn't require you to do a lot of thinking.
 

Roadkill101

Explorer
If the wand/item grants the ability to cast the spell, then I'd rule no (unless the spell in question is a cantrip). If the wand/item created the spell and only had to be activated (command word, depress the stud, trace the engraving. etc.) then I'd rule yes.
 

ph0rk

Friendship is Magic, and Magic is Heresy.
I think the extra resources from a wand or stave is strong enough to make them useful without also allowing the caster to cast a leveled spell and a bonus action spell like misty step.
 

Redwizard007

Explorer
I'm not sure why I'm just getting the reply, but you are wrong here. The reason you are wrong is because the rules are specific. Casting a spell and using a magic items are 2 different actions. The rules say "you cannot cast 2 spells. It does not say you can't use a magic item or drink a potion. This is why some magic items have save DCs, because it's the strength of the magic item the person has to beat, not the strength of you and your spell casting ability. The difference in real world would be, you trying to do a complicated math equation in your head vs typing the numbers on a calculator. The calculator can do it much faster, and it doesn't require you to do a lot of thinking.
Just for clarity, how do you interpret the text on magic items that says "you can use an action to expend 1 or more of its Charges to cast the __________ spell?" Not what action do you use, the part where it says "to cast the ______ spell." How are you interpreting it to mean something other than "you" are "casting the spell?"
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen
I'm not sure why I'm just getting the reply, but you are wrong here. The reason you are wrong is because the rules are specific. Casting a spell and using a magic items are 2 different actions. The rules say "you cannot cast 2 spells. It does not say you can't use a magic item or drink a potion. This is why some magic items have save DCs, because it's the strength of the magic item the person has to beat, not the strength of you and your spell casting ability. The difference in real world would be, you trying to do a complicated math equation in your head vs typing the numbers on a calculator. The calculator can do it much faster, and it doesn't require you to do a lot of thinking.
You’re correct that the Cast a Spell action and the Use an Item action are two different actions. Notably though, the restriction on spellcasting isn’t against using the Cast a Spell action, it’s against casting a spell, which is something you must do as part of the effect of the Use an Object action with a Wand of Lightning Bolts.
 


jgsugden

Legend
If you're the DM, you can rule it the way you want, but the rules don't say that. It's just how you're choosing to interpret it.
The wand's very specific rules say that you cast the spell. You use the "Use an Object" action, and as part of it, you cast the spell - because that is what the use of the object states happens.

There is nothing to debate here. It is very clear.
 

neogod22

Explorer
The wand's very specific rules say that you cast the spell. You use the "Use an Object" action, and as part of it, you cast the spell - because that is what the use of the object states happens.

There is nothing to debate here. It is very clear.
So you're saying is when you're using a wand or staff, or any magic item for that matter, you still need the verbal, somatic, and material components, or do you just activate the magic item like turning on a flashlight?
 

neogod22

Explorer
There's a difference between a caster casting a spell, and a magic item doing it for you. Do you ever look at the rules and ask why they are written this way and the thought behind it, or do you just blindly follow?
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen
If you're the DM, you can rule it the way you want, but the rules don't say that. It's just how you're choosing to interpret it.
The rules do very literally say that. It’s perfectly reasonable to rule otherwise, and to be honest I probably would do so myself if it came up. But, there’s really no ambiguity as to what the rules say.
 


neogod22

Explorer
The rules do very literally say that. It’s perfectly reasonable to rule otherwise, and to be honest I probably would do so myself if it came up. But, there’s really no ambiguity as to what the rules say.
So are your purposely misunderstanding the question or what? Because USING a magic item is not casting a spell. 2 different actions. Just as clearly written in the rules as you're trying to argue.
 


Charlaquin

Goblin Queen
So are your purposely misunderstanding the question or what? Because USING a magic item is not casting a spell. 2 different actions. Just as clearly written in the rules as you're trying to argue.
Again, the rule does not prevent you from using the Use an Object action. However, the effect of using the Use an Object action to use a Wand of Lightning Bolts is that you cast the lightning bolt spell, which the rule does prevent you from doing.
 


Would you allow a spellcaster to cast Misty Step and then use a Wand of Lightning Bolts, for example?
No. Wands explicitly state one "casts" the associated spell. This choice of language is purposeful.

The DMG page 141 answers your question. Under Spells: Some magic items allow the user to cast a spell from the item. The section goes on to detail that magic items like Wands change the rules for how spells are normally cast, bypassing the need for components and using or having a spell slot (and because features like counterspell require the spellcasting to be perceived, a wand bypasses this...it has nothing to do with whether a wand is a cast spell...it is).

Further, magical items, including Wands, are not considered "Objects" for purposes of the rogue "fast hands" feature (same page and 2020 D&D official sage advice errata). Some future DM screens would list this as "Use Magical Item" for clarification of rules that already existed.

Note: 5E wands vary quite a bit from how wands worked in prior editions. Previously, they independently triggered a spell for spellcasters and those who had a class feature to bypass that requirement. Now, anyone can "cast" the spell. Sage Advice through Crawford felt Wands should trigger class abilities like arcane ward but this never made it into official errata, leaving it a DM question. Not your original point, but worth mentioning I felt.
 

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