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Vampire the Masquerade 20th Edition version


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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Available to folks who go to a particular convention?

When you count travel expenses and hotel, that's one pricey rulebook.
 


Treebore

First Post
Well, if they make it possible to get it without having to travel to a convention I'll want to know about it. If they are truly doing it for the fans, it will be.
 

They've clarified that it'll be available to other fans as well, although more details haven't been released yet. Given that it's a 400 page anniversary edition, I would expect it to still be pretty darn pricy.
 

Treebore

First Post
They've clarified that it'll be available to other fans as well, although more details haven't been released yet. Given that it's a 400 page anniversary edition, I would expect it to still be pretty darn pricy.

I'm figuring $50 to $60, if it goes above that I doubt I'll want it that bad. Not sure I want it at under $60. One of those things where I'll be waiting to see.
 


They've clarified that it'll be available to other fans as well, although more details haven't been released yet. Given that it's a 400 page anniversary edition, I would expect it to still be pretty darn pricy.

True, but it also appears to be a one-book game in that it has in one volume what was spread among so many before.

Every clan & bloodline, every single discipline all the way up to Level 9, and from the sound of it as much of the metaplot as they could cram into one volume.

I was never huge on V:tM, but for the utility of having pretty much everything about that game that would ever really be used all in one book, that's pretty dang nice for a game where so much was spread over so many books.

I know some WW fans that are probably already wanting to order it when it hits wider availability.
 

fanboy2000

First Post
Wow. That was one of the first games I played. I got into roleplaying back in the mid 90s when there was a strong anti-D&D sentiment. My friend Mike was the storyteller for a few of our games. He was an angsty kind of guy. I got into Changeling by way of Vampire.

Well, I guess 80s nostalgia is going to start taking a back seat to 90s nostalgia. Fine with me, I was getting tired of everyone telling me the 90s sucked.

There might be a pun in there somewhere.
 


Impeesa

Explorer
This intrigues me. I always loved flipping through the old World of Darkness books, but never played more than a few sessions and therefore never added any to my own collection. But while I did miss the original run, I'd still buy the omnibus edition, so to speak. WW could totally sell me a 3-book box set of the complete Vampire, Werewolf, and Mage.
 

ruemere

Explorer
VtM: Remastered for BlueRay and HD DVD. With special introductory price.

*rant warning*

1. Five months for open development of material conversion? It's either too long or too short (3 months for printing leaves 2 months for development and editing). Given that this is rehash of old material with slapped on conversion with all setting specific items left out, the question is whether there is anything worth developing.
Although, I'm thoroughly convinced that the book is going to be pretty.

2. Old design attitudes are coming back to play foul (excerpt taken from designer blog):
(on greater dice pools leading to greater chance of botching the roll) And you know what? I agree with these. While I will certainly stop far short of saying that your reward for a high degree of competence (dice pool) versus problematic situation (difficulty) is the greater chance of sewing your car keys into the ghoul's abdominal cavity, I will say that they are both narrative goldmines, and they're true to the fluky, weird, and cosmically karmic nature of classic tabletop Vampire storytelling.

This is an old issue. Bringing it back shows that that while the world moved on, this particular person didn't. I may have little bias with a system which rewards greater competence with greater chance of disastrous failure, but the fact that the topic was beaten to death over years simply shows lack of flexibility or creativeness.

To counter this particular idea:
- modern narrative systems have usually two control mechanisms built in. One to mitigate disaster, the other to induce disaster. Both are needed - to make the players feel more in control, the other to ensure that disasters do happen at significant moments (in a way, it's like accumulating negative karma).
- pure randomness invites cheating on both sides of the screen. Players don't want to lose because they had to roll and were struck by bad luck. GMs don't want their villains to flop meaninglessly.

Oh, and that was Justin Achilli writing it, el luchador of the development team.

3. The original vampire game was not about vampires. Bloodlines, disciplines, clans, generations were marginal to relations, power plays and daily struggle with vampiric urges.
Is the concept of master list of clans really appropriate?

I wonder if they are going to fill pages again with stereotypes, goth girls, ugly nosferatu and smart businessmen? The disciplines were mentioned to include 9 levels of powers though, so hopefully, this time they may choose to skip some of fast food content.

4. An example of a modern supernatural game: Harry Dresden Files (link to free adventure). That's the benchmark against which V20 has to compete... unless the plan is just to sell to die-hard fans.


Regards,
Ruemere

PS. Regarding this bitter tone of mine... does anyone remember heavyhandedness with which demise of Ravnos Antedeluvian was handled? There was no sense of mystery, no hidden and subtle stuff happening behind the scenes. So much potential, so many details lovingly painted by designers... all of this gone in a flash of a nuclear strike. Just like Camarilla, Inconnu and Sabbat (and the independents) got squashed by elephant stomp of Gehenna books.

Without satisfying conclusion to metaplot of Old WoD, and with new books lacking focus... I know it's highly subjective and incomplete impression, but the first books of New WoD were hardly inspiring with regard to building long campaign arcs. At their core, the sense of wonder may have been somewhat present in mortal books, but the vampires and werewolves were distinctly lacking in mysticism department.

And so I put my books on the shelf, and didn't look back.
Hmm. For some reason, I have an uncanny urge to give 7th Sea another try...
 
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SSquirrel

Explorer
I knew the end times books for all teh settings were going to be crap and avoided them. I had also not been paying much attention to the metaplot for pretty much all of Revised. Mage was killed with the Revised edition IMO and I had moved away from the group I had played White Wolf with, so I wasn't super active in buying their books anymore. Hearing how bumblingly they were handling the product was pretty sad tho.

Then they unveiled the new setting. The less said about the NWoD the better. The only one of them my wife and I think is worth anything at all is Changeling, altho the underlying system for NWoD just feels busier for no real benefit at the table.
 

pawsplay

First Post
I know it's highly subjective and incomplete impression, but the first books of New WoD were hardly inspiring with regard to building long campaign arcs. At their core, the sense of wonder may have been somewhat present in mortal books, but the vampires and werewolves were distinctly lacking in mysticism department.

I feel the opposite. The NWoD to me seems chock full of real supernaturalism. Instead of The Cool Vampire Club, you actually have elements of the setting like the miraculous, restless ghosts, and the like, peeking in and making things less certain, more mysterious. The Lancea Sanctum in particular reminds me of Ann Rice's intruiguing splashes of the sacred here and there in the Vampire Chronicles, hints of medieval Christianity in a world where heathen sorcery works (sometimes) and psychics can bend the minds even of vampires.

I'm not necessarily as crazy about the system itself, which replaced a flawed system with something more elegant, but also more abstract, and more complicated.
 

ProfessorCirno

First Post
nWoD is leagues better then oWoD.

Say, know what I really don't miss from oVampire? The absolutely inane amount of racism that was almost hilarious, but dropped just sort of it and just wallowed in "really, really uncomfortable."
 

Leatherhead

Possibly a Idiot.
I really want a Mage book like this.

Also I am going to take a look at the MMO despite the fact I shouldn't look at MMOs anymore :p
 

pawsplay

First Post
nWoD is leagues better then oWoD.

Say, know what I really don't miss from oVampire? The absolutely inane amount of racism that was almost hilarious, but dropped just sort of it and just wallowed in "really, really uncomfortable."

i don't know which is more hilarious, comparing the trashy depictions of Romani in WOD Gypsies with the trashy depiction in the Ravnos clanbook, or snickering at the African-American Brujah whose entire worldview was encapsulated in a comment about someone's predilection for Oedipal incest.

Moving right along, before Eric's grandma gets offended.... :)
 


ruemere

Explorer
I feel the opposite. The NWoD to me seems chock full of real supernaturalism. Instead of The Cool Vampire Club, you actually have elements of the setting like the miraculous, restless ghosts, and the like, peeking in and making things less certain, more mysterious.

While I agree that goth ain't trendy anymore (and in my particular part of the world, they never were), it never bothered my little furiously paced Vampire Dark Ages chronicle.

The reinvented elements would have been cool as long as their presentation was suitably different. It's a bit difficult to relearn basics of the setting, when so many things are similar... the immersion becomes quite a feat.

The Lancea Sanctum in particular reminds me of Ann Rice's intruiguing splashes of the sacred here and there in the Vampire Chronicles, hints of medieval Christianity in a world where heathen sorcery works (sometimes) and psychics can bend the minds even of vampires.

Yes, it felt very nostalgic. 1st edition feel, huh?

I'm not necessarily as crazy about the system itself, which replaced a flawed system with something more elegant, but also more abstract, and more complicated.

I would argue about new system being more elegant... I'm not fond of storyteller system (and never was). It's a bit different, it still falls to pieces if you want to use it for more mundane creature or perform non-dramatic tasks, and it still requires counting successes.

Regards,
Ruemere
 


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