{Vampire: The Masquerade - OOC} New York by Night

[Ashrem Bayle]

Basically, Ash - what are you getting at with making him a similar Tremere, ability wise, but very different personality-wise to Mikolai?
Could you give me some info to work with so I can understand what you're planning?

No prob.

Why did I make a Tremere? Mainly because I love the clan. Most of the other clans have already been represented. Our Storytellers said they only wanted Camarilla characters, so my two favorite clans (Tzimisce and Lasombra) where right out. That also precludes the Gangrel now. I hate Nosferatu, so that wasn't a real choice either. The Tremere are my favorite of the Camarilla clans.

Like you have already said, the difference between our characters are night and day. Comparing our character sheets (the one you previously posted), I don't see a lot of overlap.

I have slightly better physical stats, though you have a slightly higher Dex.

There is a lot of difference in our various skills.

As far as Disciplines go, you went the road of Auspex, I took Dominate. Thaumaturgy is the same, but we share only one common rituel.

Merits and Flaws are completly different.

I don't think there will be a problem. The only thing we have in common is Thamaturgy 3, high willpower, low humanity, and clan.

Our character's personalities and goals are VERY different. You hate what you have become, Gabriel sees it as an oportunity to start over. That doesn't mean he likes it really, but he has come to terms with it. I will say that it is starting to get to him recently though.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

As for how you are going to react to me? It really depends on your character.

As far as you know right now, Gabriel is a Sabbat vampire. He bears the Mark of the Betrayer.

I gather from Catulle's description that you don't already know Gabriel, so you havn't heard about his mark. That would be odd though. Word of a Tremere with the mark would spread like wildfire throughout the clan in a city.

Still, your character seems to be pretty distant from the rest of the clan, so it might not be so odd after all.

That said, if you aren't closely tied to your clan, aside from the Mark, you would probably treat him like any other vampire. Given the Mark though, you might distrust him more than other vamps. Or you might not because you have no real allegience to your clan or sect.

However, you have been told by your sire that all Sabbat vampires are devil worshipping monsters, so that isn't going to help much.

 

[reapersaurus]

Right - I am not playing Nikolai as an outcast - he ingratiates himself into a situation, even as Council-dominated clan as Tremere would have SOME variation of personalities, ESPECIALLY in Aislinn's Chantry (as you know from New York by Night).

So he knows what's going on - and if it's OK with you, I'll roleplay the same thing I'll ask you now:
"How can a Marked Tremere be passing himself off as a respected member of Tremere society?

Unless I misunderstand the Flaw, than Gabriel is the lowest class citizen possible. Him showing up to clan events (much less try to lead?!) would be the height of rudeness.
Wouldn't he be the Tremere people spit at, basically?
Or is that not how that large of Flaw works?

 

[Catulle]

The way I see the Gabriel/Nikolai thing:-

As a Marked Tremere, Aisling's been pretty damn cautious about letting Gabriel out of her sight - he'll have been taken to meet Qadir, David and Calebros (so the city's rulers aren't going to have him killed straight off) and Valentine (who actively tries to keep his finger on the pulse) as well as informed him of the other Tremere in the city. Tonight is likely his first entry to New York Elysia on his own, having been sent to meet Aisling there. Unfortunately, it would appear that she's been delayed...

Nikolai's likely heard that Aisling's been busy of late with ~something~ in the Fifth Chantry (location unknown), and has been taking instruction (intermittently) from Regent Estevez of the Maupassant Room Chantry - this intermittent contact has allowed him to branch out, and start forming contacts with people such as Qadir al-Asmai...

The "Eh? What?!?" reaction would seem totally realistic (the Mark of the Betrayer ~is~ infamous in the House and Clan for a very good reason. Yes, it sets a severe social stigma ~among Tremere~, outsiders, of course, can't detect the sigil at all. (A good reason for Gabriel to start having more to do with non-Tremere(and one the Tremere have likely realised, given the other Flaw...)). In either event, please roleplay it out, but remember Elysium.

Oh, and Ashrem - Gabriel's on 7 blood at present.

Regards,

Barry

 

[reapersaurus]

So, the more I look at this, the more confused I get.

Gabriel is Blood Bound (huge Flaw) to the Tremere Elder Council.
Meaning, he has no real will of his own, IF his choices are different from the Elder's.
In addition, he has the Betrayer Flaw, which is one point away from being Bloodhunted-severity.
How does this impact Gabriel's actions in-game?

If there's not much Elder presence here, than it would be lessened, of course.
But the Betrayer thing (I thought ) would preclude him from ever showing his face in Tremere society.
The taint would be so bad, he couldn't really participate in vampire politics... could he?

Seperate but related question:
How are you playing the other clan's knowledge of this huge Flaw?
If Nikolai (or any other Tremere) didn't agree with Gabriel being involved in something, could they (would they) just point out the Mark, and have Gabriel removed from consideration?

BTW: Nikolai doesn't want much to do with Tremere politicking, unless it can increase the blood powers he brings to bear: perhaps a preferred position to learn exotic, powerful Rituals, or Disciplines (which I'm not aware of that kind of Tremere position).

What explains Gabriel being tolerated in New York?

These questions I was hoping were going to be answered by your Q & A, Ash, but I guess you're not 'publishing' any of Gabriel's background?

 

[Shalimar]

err Ahh, PAGING JEMAL....beep beep beep. Your wanted on the set.

ah, Can someone take over for him in the interim?

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

All of that is in my background, but I'll hit on some of it for you.

First of all, Gabriel is indeed a slave to his clan. More or less anyway.

By Aisling's blessing, he has been formally accepted into the clan. However, because of the Mark, he was forced to be blood bound entirelly instead of the usuel on step.

Now the blood bind doesn't mean he is a mindless slave, but he has a loyalty stronger than most all other Tremere.

Another thing is that the Mark doesn't necesarily mean he is an outcast. Aisling, being the head of the clan in New York has officialy declared Gabe as a member of clan Tremere and that the Mark forgiven. Anybody who doesn't respect that defies Aisling and therefore the clan. So offically, the Mark can't be held against him. In the real world however, he has a hard time earning the trust of his clanmates and he is VERY closely watched.

Up to this point, Gabe has been extremely loyal to the clan. Other than the Mark, noone has a reason to not trust him.

How are you playing the other clan's knowledge of this huge Flaw?

I'm not. The Tremere do not share interclan knowledge with outsiders for fear that it could be used against the clan as a whole. Nobody knows but the other Tremere. To inform another vampire of another clan could be seen as an act against the clan.

It is mentioned several times in several books that the vampires of clan Tremere fight with and backstab each other on a regular basis. However, they are a unified front against the other clans. Aisling would much rather have a Marked Tremere in a position of political power than a vampire of another clan. Remember, she can read Gabriel's mind, and the fact that he acts as her apprentice gives her plenty of opportunities. He has never given her a reason to distrust him.

In fact, the moment Aisling first saw Gabe, she tried to kill him just because of the Mark. She has had a leash on him ever since and has actually taken a liking to him because of the loyalty he has shown and the fact he excepts the blood bond and doesn't resent the clan. Gabe's loyalty to Aisling and the clan is real. The bond is really unnecessary.

 

[KitanaVorr]

Wow it all sounds really good, Ash. I'm liking Gabriel more and more. He should be an interesting character to watch along the way

Hey I have a question or two (what a surprise hehe)

What is the betrayer mark? Can anyone other than vampires see it? Also, what does being blood bonded mean?

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

Back in the 1300's the two sects (Camarilla and Sabbat) rose from the ashes of the Anarch revolt.

Only two clans, the Tzimisce and Lasombra went over to the Sabbat as a whole. However, all of the clans had individuels who deffected to the Sabbat. Those vampires began known as Antitribu (Anti-tribe).

For example. Clan Ventrue as a clan belongs to the Camarilla. A Ventrue vampire who defects to (or is embraced into) the Sabbat is called a Ventrue Antitribu.

Likewise, a Lasombra who defects to the Camarilla is called a Lasombra Antitribu.

Now... the Mark.

Like the other clans, the Tremere had their own share of defectors. The Tremere of the Camarilla put a curse on their Antitribu brothers. The curse is the Mark. Only Camarilla Tremere can see the Mark. It is invisible to all other vampires and mortals.

So.. It boils down to the fact that Gabriel bares the Mark of a Tremere antitribu. Why? Good question.

It gets even more interesting. No more Tremere Antitribu (also called House Goratrix) exist. Sometime around 2000, the entirety of the Sabbat's Tremere population was destroyed. Presumably, Gabriel's sire went up in smoke with the rest. Gabriel's allegiance to the Camarilla is all that saved him.

Now. This isn't common IC knowledge. Nobody knows what happened to the Tremere Antitribu. All the Camarilla knows is that Tremere vampires with the Mark have all disappeared. Well... accept one.

In reality, any Tremere Antitribu that defected to the Camarilla (extremely rare) would bare the Mark and wouldn't have been wiped out with the rest of the Sabbat Tremere.

 

[reapersaurus]

I'm surprised the blood bond is not covered in that Camarilla book you have, Kit.
When you feed once from a vampire, you have intense feelings of closeness towards them, due to the incredible feelings that the blood causes.
This does not cause you to not be able to act against them, it should just be roleplayed.
When you feed twice from the same vampire, you have such intense feelings towards them, you must succeed at somer kind of Willpower roll? to do them any harm or act against them.

Three times is blood bound, and you can't act against them, or something (I forget the particulars, this is from memory).

Ash - could you help me understand how those are flaws then?
You make a Tremere that agrees wholeheartedly with the Elders, so Bloodbound Flaw isn't really a hindrance, then you have him a pet of the most powerful Tremere in New York, and a favored, accepted status?. How does the Mark really affect you if no other clan can act on it?
I thought you told ME that Flaws shouldn't be dodged (so to speak) (or was that the clan weakness?).
Then you make a PC that is only "limited" in his relationships to Tremere that don't mind making waves AND aren't in the inner circle of the clan (since the Elders "control" Gabriel anyway).

That sounds to me like the only vampire in New York that can possibly be affected by your 4 point Flaw (huge, in game terms) is Nikolai?! LOL

Tell me I'm off here, cause I am not getting how this limits your character (and since you're not revealing your background, it's hard to see how it fits in properly, of course).
I just think it's ironic, since you didn't want me taking a Merit (costing me points) to dodge the Tremere clan weakness, yet you took a Flaw (gaining points) that nullified the clan weakness.
On a side note: would a Tremere character actually get full points for taking a Flaw of Bloodbound, when he's already partially-bloodbound thru his clan weakness?

(the above are just my thoughts-o-the-morning... off to work!)