D&D 5E Variant Multiclassing (AD&D/Gygax Style), help with play balance

[Lanefan]

Hit dice are combined together and divided by the number of classes and rounded down.

A fighter/mage/rogue would have d10+d6+d8 for a total of 24/3 or d8. A fighter cleric would have (10+8)/2 or 9 rounding down to d8.

Picky question, but why would you round down instead of just giving the F-C a d9 hit die?

 

[Lanefan]

Having read through the thread, the idea - while good in principle - IMHO doesn't go quite far enough.

First off, it'll only work well if you a) use real actual xp rather than milestone and b) allow each class to advance completely independent of the other. Level-up in either class happens when it happens (or when training is done, depending on your table rules).

Once you've done those you can then open up the flexibility to allow for uneven class splits - the player has to declare what % of earned xp is going into each class (can change between adventures, perhaps) such that a character can in effect have a primary and secondary class. So, I could be a 90% Fighter 10% Cleric, functioning as a Fighter most of the time with the Cleric side there mostly to provide the occasional emergency cure or, later, divination.

Every time I get xp, 90% of them go into Fighter and 10% of them go into Cleric and I run a separate xp track for each side. Yes this is a bit more math for me-as-player, so what: I brought it on myself. When the Fighter side bumps, it bumps. When the Cleric side bumps, it bumps.

Oh, and you get all the benefits of each class unless there's overlap, in which case you (usually) get the better. Thus when needing a save, for example, a 50-50 Fighter-Cleric would roll against whichever class gave the better result. Hit points, you take an average rounded normally. A 50-50 F-C would use a d9 hit die, the 90-10 example I use above would be about a d9.75 which rounds up to a d10.

The drawback, of course, is that after 1st level (which is the only time a two-class character really rocks) you're forever behind in level, eventually significantly so.

There'd be some tweaking required to the advancement table, particularly at higher levels, to keep the power levels vaguely the same between single-classers and double-classers. Certain class combinations would almost certainly need to be hard-banned, also a hard limit of two classes per character - no dipping.

 

[cbwjm]

Picky question, but why would you round down instead of just giving the F-C a d9 hit die?

Mostly because I don't have d9 dice. I could use an online die roller but otherwise, I prefer to round down to the nearest standard die size.

 

[howandwhy99]

If you want to go pre-3e, you need to ditch Character Level. Something baked in 5e.

Before 2000 every class was scored separately, so a Ftr5/Clr6 was not at all an 11th level character. Rather they composited advancement along two different game paths and were perhaps balanced with single class characters of 1 level higher - at most.

 

[Lanefan]

Mostly because I don't have d9 dice. I could use an online die roller but otherwise, I prefer to round down to the nearest standard die size.

You've almost certainly got tons of d9s kicking around. They're cleverly disguised as d10s, only if you roll '0' you roll again.

 

[Lanefan]

If you want to go pre-3e, you need to ditch Character Level. Something baked in 5e.

Before 2000 every class was scored separately, so a Ftr5/Clr6 was not at all an 11th level character. Rather they composited advancement along two different game paths and were perhaps balanced with single class characters of 1 level higher - at most.

This is exactly what I'm getting at with my post a few upthread, with the independent advancing.

I suspect in 5e the balance point might be about 1 level in 5 (thus a 4-4 matches a 5th, an 8-8 matches a 10th, a 12-12 matches a 15th, etc.) but that's just a guess. It'd take huge gobs of trial and error to a) figure out a good balance point and b) figure out what class combinations are either bannably broken or holelessly weak.

 

[cbwjm]

You've almost certainly got tons of d9s kicking around. They're cleverly disguised as d10s, only if you roll '0' you roll again.

I prefer it to be equal to an actual die size so I round down.

 

[dmhelp]

Going along with my rules I've figured out how to tweak the spell slot progression:

• Character level determines hp, proficiency, cantrip damage, and, if a double caster combination (e.g. Sorcerer/Warlock), spell slots per day (based on the most favorable class treating Warlocks as a full caster, see examples at end)
• Multiclass level determines class features, spells known/prepared, and, if a caster/non caster combination (e.g. Barbarian/Druid), spell slots per day
• Warlock double casters treat Mystic Arcanum spells as additional spells known which require spell slots and can be upcast regularly

Double Caster Examples:
A character level 20 Eldritch Knight/Arcane Trickster gains spell slots as a level 20 third caster (Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster)
A character level 20 Eldritch Knight/Paladin gains spell slots as a level 20 half caster (Paladin or Ranger)
A character level 20 Cleric/Paladin gains spell slots as a level 20 full caster (Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, or Wizard)
A character level 20 Paladin/Warlock gains spell slots as a level 20 full caster (instead of pact magic progression)

Caster/Non Caster Examples (I used 14/14 as the example level 20 equivalency here):
A character level 20 Eldritch Knight/Assassin gains spell slots as a level 14 third caster
A character level 20 Four Elements Monk/Sorcerer gains spell slots as a level 14 full caster
A character level 20 Barbarian/Warlock gains spell slots as a level 14 Warlock (standard pact magic progression)

 

[Quartz]

at 11th level(start of tier 3) every 6/5 split is worse than any single class of 11th level(well, maybe not ranger or monk ).

An 11th level Ranger can have Hunter's Mark up all day.

 

[Horwath]

An 11th level Ranger can have Hunter's Mark up all day.

in case that this isn't sarcasm...


at the cost of all 3 3rd level slots. that require concentration to mantain and ranger is without constitution save proficiencies.
Paladin at 11th level has +1d8 holy damage on all melee attacks.