Variant 'Sleep' spell

[Anthony Jackson]

My experience with the sleep spell is that is it, outside of certain degenerate combos (e.g. the Orb combos which give a ridiculously difficult save), it's really not very good for a Daily, and it also doesn't work in the traditional role of "put the guards to sleep".

So, I was pondering this variant. Does it seem balanced? Does it seem like it works properly?

Sleep
Daily * Arcane, Implement, Sleep, Psychic
Standard Action Area burst 2 within 20 squares
Attack: Intelligence vs Will
Hit: 2d6+Intelligence modifier psychic damage, and the target is slowed.
Miss: the target is slowed.
Special: a creature reduced to zero or fewer HP by this spell is always rendered unconscious, rather than killed, and will recall going to sleep, not taking damage.

 

[generalhenry]

Does it seem balanced?

yes

Does it seem like it works properly?

for mook sleeping, yes


Though it doesn't quite feel right.

 

[Runestar]

How will this spell ever succeed in putting anyone to sleep? It does so little damage, it really only works on minions.

 

[Anthony Jackson]

How will this spell ever succeed in putting anyone to sleep? It does so little damage, it really only works on minions.

If you can put someone to sleep (really to sleep), it's as good as killing them. That means it should be as difficult as killing them.

Since 4e doesn't do save or die spells, the only way to kill someone is blowing through their hit points. Thus, a sleep spell with a real duration should work by blowing through the target's hit points.

 

[generalhenry]

it is remarkably inline with the usual hit dice limits.

 

[erik_the_guy]

I'm not sure. It works for putting guards to sleep, but against the targets I often use sleep on (big things with low will def like ogres) It would be less useful. I want to put the big baddies to sleep!

 

[Runestar]

If you can put someone to sleep (really to sleep), it's as good as killing them. That means it should be as difficult as killing them.

Conversely, why bother putting them to sleep if I could kill them just as easily?

My interpretation of your spell is that it does a 1-time 2d6+int mod damage. Considering that even 1st lv foes start with ~ 30hp, it can't possibly sleep anyone save for minions (and you already have flaming sphere for clearing them).

Seems only marginally better than icy terrain, an encounter power.

 

[Anthony Jackson]

I want to put the big baddies to sleep!

By definition, if you can take it out with one attack, it's not a big baddie.

How about this variant:
Sleep
Daily * Arcane, Implement, Sleep, Psychic
Standard Action Area burst 2 within 20 squares
Attack: Intelligence vs Will
Hit: target is Dazed (save ends). A surprised target is instead Drowsy (save ends, but see the condition); see below.
Miss: the target is slowed.
Drowsy: If you are Drowsy:

• You grant combat advantage
• You grant all targets Concealment (i.e. stealth always works on you)
• You take a -10 penalty to perception tests.
• You take a -10 penalty to saves to recover from this condition.
• You can't flank an enemy.
• You can take no actions.
• If you take damage, succeed at a perception check, or otherwise notice something significant, change your condition to Dazed. In general, nearby combat always wakes a drowsy character.

That works nicely for sneaking past guards, and it's not useless in combat (dazed is a fairly nasty condition), but it's not a save or die either.