D&D 5E Vehicles (land) versus Animal Handling

[Warunsun]

Greetings folks.

I am preparing for our D&D 5E campaign and noticed that Vehicles (land) tool proficiency exists in the game and can be given from backgrounds like Soldier. It seems that land vehicles includes mounts. So if you have said proficiency does it effectively replace animal handling rolls for controlling mounts? I would tend to think so but it is not very clear.

 

[Syntallah]

The thing to remember when adjudicating skills/tools/abilites is "does it make sense". So, to answer your question:

- if a PC is driving a coach at break neck speed to get away from pursuers, and has the Vehicles {Land}, he adds his proficiency to applicable rolls
- if he later on is hiding out in the woods and tries to make friends with an angry bull to hitch up to his coach, his Vehicles {Land} doesn't count, but if he has Animal Handling it would
- if he wants to cut one of his horses away from the coach and use it to ride through the woods, he no longer has the vehicle so his proficiency doesn't count, but again, Animal Handling would

 

[Warunsun]

if he wants to cut one of his horses away from the coach and use it to ride through the woods, he no longer has the vehicle so his proficiency doesn't count, but again, Animal Handling would

But isn't his horse considered a land vehicle by the rules? In the play-test you could have the mount proficiency but this appears to be eliminated in favor of just vehicle (land) or vehicle (water). Under vehicle proficiency is says, "* See the “Mounts and Vehicles” section." So I would think even if he ditched his coach or didn't have one he could attempt to control his horse with Wisdom and proficiency bonus. I think overall it would be inferior to Animal Handling in a lot of ways but for his own horse it would be equal. At least that is how I am reading it but again it is not very clear.

 

[Syntallah]

But isn't his horse considered a land vehicle by the rules? In the play-test you could have the mount proficiency but this appears to be eliminated in favor of just vehicle (land) or vehicle (water). Under vehicle proficiency is says, "* See the “Mounts and Vehicles” section." So I would think even if he ditched his coach or didn't have one he could attempt to control his horse with Wisdom and proficiency bonus. I think overall it would be inferior to Animal Handling in a lot of ways but for his own horse it would be equal. At least that is how I am reading it but again it is not very clear.

I personally think of vehicles as wagons, coaches, carts, sleds, etc; not a horse, but I guess that definition would fall to the individual table. For me, if a PC with Vehicles {Land} tried to use that proficiency with a warhorse, I would say no way. If he wanted to use it with a draft horse that was bred and trained to pull wagons, I guess I might allow it, depending upon what he was trying to make the horse do...

 

[Kobold Stew]

No, a horse is not a land vehicle, it's a mount ("Mounts and Vehicles").

We can start with the following balancing mechanism: SKILLS>TOOLS. Tool proficiencies and languages can be learned in downtime, but not skills. So whatever the case of overlap, the Animal Handling skill is giving more than the land vehicle tool proficiency. The second factor is that a tool proficiency gives you something that no skill does.

So, in the case of Land Vehicles, I can think of several things that the tool proficiency can do that would not be part of default Animal Handling:
* driving a covered wagon or stagecoach when being chased
* mushing a dog sled through the arctic
* harnessing a cart or a plough to unfamiliar animals
* packing a cart efficiently to get 10-25% more carrying capacity.
* performing basic repairs and maintenance of harnesses, straps, wheels, and the woodwork for wagons

Anyone can sit in a cart and get it to move (whether or not you have the tool or animal proficiency), but if you're ever needing to make a roll involving something like this, land vehicles proficiency allows you to add your proficiency bonus.

However, there are some things that would be useful for a stagecoach driver that would not be covered, and for which you'd need the animal handling skill:
* care and treatment of horses
* treating injuries
* training and breaking the animals
* getting your dogs to survive with less food in the tundra than they might normally need.
etc.

I hope this helps.

 

[jrowland]

This actually came up in my Wednesday game. Characters traveling along a road - 3 on horseback one on horse and cart, gently rolling plains.

Ankehgs attack Set-up: I had each player roll an animal handling check since the horses picked up on the burrowing of the ankhegs and a success meant the PC got to act in the surprise round (all succeeded).

Surprise round: Horses act on initiative 10, PCs acting on surprise round roll initiative, then proceed to act accordingly (they actually scanned the skies, lol and stayed put!). The horse and cart PC rolled a 5 initiative, so his horse bolted. On the PCs surprise turn he attempted to regain control of the horse and cart (added proficiency bonus since he has Vehicles(land)).

Round one: Ankhegs attack the 3 PCs on horseback looking up while the Horse and Cart PC laughs at the good fortune of a poor initiative roll. Combat ensues.

So I used Animal Handling as a "sense motive" type check for the horses, and the Vehicle (land) to regain control of the cart. Had a 'free' horse bolted too, that PC would make a Animal Handling check. I would have allowed a Animal Handling check for the horse and cart too since it was really trying to calm the horse down. But I can see a PC having only one (not both) skills/tools and so the distinction is good. I forget if the PC with the Horse and Cart has both, but he said "My Vehicle(land) is better" and used that when I gave him the choice.