Venite, omni qui legonium Romae scient!

Tiberius

Explorer
Hi, everyone. If you're one of my players, you may stop reading now. For everyone else, I have a question.

My players are soon going to be leading their armies against a legion of troops modeled after the Roman style. This is all well and good, as I am somewhat familiar with the tactics of Rome and willing to do research for what I do not know. However, it occured to me that I have to contend with something the actual legates did not: magic. Especially big-boom Evocations. I'm sure others have run into similar situations (SHARK, I'm looking at you. :)) and was wondering how have you handled it?

Here's the situation. My PCs recently aquired a barony, the ownership of which is contested. They came in with an army and fought the Romans, carrying the day but suffering ~90% losses. Since then they have made no effort to raise an army. They've been away for a month or so doing adventurey things. Upon their return, they learn that the northern reaches of the barony (a very hilly and forested area) have been reconquered by a legion of their foes. They send to the Queen for help, and she promises a force of 500 light infantry, 300 medium cavalry, and 200 archers. They have also been pledged martial support from the kingdom's allies, to the tune of 950 medium infantry, 3 beholders, 5 stone giants, 20 clerics of Hextor, 20 necromancers, a vampire, and a half-fiend half-flesh golem. Part of the necromancers' job is to raise troops from the field as needed. They view this as an opportunity to test out their new toys, much like the Spanish Civil War. The party doesn't know what they're getting from these allies, and being of generally good temperment will probably not be pleased. :)

The Republican legions are a mixed-race band. Roughly 50% of the 4,800 troops are human, 20% half-elves, 15% dwarves, 10% half-orcs, and 5% lizardmen. The legate is a Fig10, and the tribunes are wizards and clerics whose main job is to counterspell incoming things and perform other auxilury magical tasks. The missile troops are primarily archers, with a corps of slingers equipped with 5-10 Fireball bullets each. The other members of the legion are rather mundane.

The Republic has ears in the court of the aforementioned Queen, so they know that the local evil theocracy is sending troops. Thus they will have a small contingent of Hieronean paladins with them. They have also convinced the local hill giants (a generally peacful bunch) to help defend the province from the invading monarchists. These giants will probably act as mobile artillery platforms. The legion is holed up guarding the only road through the hills awaiting the arrival of two more legions worth of reinforcements before they march on the capital. They expect to still carry the support of the populace, as the baron has done little more than say "Hi, I'm the new baron! Bye!"

The commanders know that the baron is a powerful elven wizard (14th level), and has is his employ a psionic centaur as a knight (Psion 14). He has also apparently aquired a tiefling scout/assassin (Rgr5/Deepwood Sniper 5/Rog1) and a bard (Brd11, Sor1).

I am grateful for any thoughts you might have about this.

-Tiberius
 
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My players are soon going to be leading their armies against a legion of troops modeled after the Roman style....However, it occured to me that I have to contend with something the actual legates did not: magic. Especially big-boom Evocations. I'm sure others have run into similar situations (SHARK, I'm looking at you. :)) and was wondering how have you handled it?
Napoleonic troops faced a similar situation, where they needed dense formations to repel cavalry charges, but they needed to remain loose againt artillery. Presumably these legions are used to fighting both heavy cavalry (knights) and artillery (wizards), and they drill changing formations with alacrity.

If you'd like a more Roman feel, let the "tortoise" formation offer cover against fireballs, etc. And make sure all the auxiliary slingers and archers -- and any siege artillerists with scorpions -- barrage known wizards.
They came in with an army and fought the Romans, carrying the day but suffering ~90% losses.
Excuse me? They won, and they suffered 90% losses? Normally, losing 10% of your troops is a terrible loss, even on the losing side. Troops will run for the hills long before most of their comrades die.
 

Re: Re: Venite, omni qui legonium Romae scient!

mmadsen said:

Napoleonic troops faced a similar situation, where they needed dense formations to repel cavalry charges, but they needed to remain loose againt artillery. Presumably these legions are used to fighting both heavy cavalry (knights) and artillery (wizards), and they drill changing formations with alacrity.

If you'd like a more Roman feel, let the "tortoise" formation offer cover against fireballs, etc. And make sure all the auxiliary slingers and archers -- and any siege artillerists with scorpions -- barrage known wizards.

Excuse me? They won, and they suffered 90% losses? Normally, losing 10% of your troops is a terrible loss, even on the losing side. Troops will run for the hills long before most of their comrades die.

Good calls on both counts. I would think that altering a formation would take a bit of time, though. My concern is that they'll get a fireball dropped on them when they close to repel a charge or some such, but I suppose it happens.

As for the staggering losses, yeah. I know they should have routed, and were beginning to. The losses were the result of a number of indescriminate area-effect spells by less...thoughtful allies. Once the armies started taking huge losses, they began to break and flee, but the opposing army was pretty much destroyed so they won by default. Still, morale will be a huge problem. Troops who survived the original attack do remember, and have little respect for the baron, remaining only because this particular kingdom punishes desertion in a rather harsh manner, where by rather harsh I mean public torture and execution. With the existance of Scry spells, deserters don't last long. So, they don't desert.

Thanks!

-Tiberius
 

Re: Re: Venite, omni qui legonium Romae scient!

mmadsen said:
If you'd like a more Roman feel, let the "tortoise" formation offer cover against fireballs, etc. And make sure all the auxiliary slingers and archers -- and any siege artillerists with scorpions -- barrage known wizards.
That sounds appropriate. The tortoise formation is basically made with multiple tower shields, covering as much as possible. Tower shields give cover, and cover gives a bonus to Reflex save against area-effect spells IIRC.
 

Well, D&D was based on the old Chainmail medieval warfare game and many of the spell effects are direct lifts from siege machinery -- fireball=catapult, lightning bolt = ballista, and the like.

The suggestions above are great. I might also suggest that the army include a number of casters focused on counter-magic --- lots of dispel magics radied to counterspell and the like.
 

Re: Re: Venite, omni qui legonium Romae scient!

Well, the Spartans fighting the Persians, I believe it was, suffered 100% losses. Voluntarily. The Marines in WWI at Bellau Woods (spelling?) suffered greater casualties than that, and won.

It happens, though rarely. Such events tend to become legendary, however :)

Also, I don't think the Romans used tower shields, at least not in general. They were large, but not that large. Overlapped, their effect was multiplied.

mmadsen said:

Excuse me? They won, and they suffered 90% losses? Normally, losing 10% of your troops is a terrible loss, even on the losing side. Troops will run for the hills long before most of their comrades die.
 
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Countermagic
Dispel Magic
Globes of Invulnerability
Even Anti-magic

A general will protect his units if he can afford it and he thinks his enemy will engage mass spell power
 

Greater than the 10% "horrible even for losers" figure.

thegreatbuddha said:
Huh? The Spartans suffered a 100% casualty rate, and the Marines had a hgher casualty rate? Did somebody die twice?
 

Emiricol said:
Well, the Spartans fighting the Persians, I believe it was, suffered 100% losses. Voluntarily. The Marines in WWI at Bellau Woods (spelling?) suffered greater casualties than that, and won.

It happens, though rarely. Such events tend to become legendary, however :)

thegreatbuddha said:
Huh? The Spartans suffered a 100% casualty rate, and the Marines had a hgher casualty rate? Did somebody die twice?

As an American, I'm proud to back up that statement and say our team gives one hundred and ten percent! ;)

IIRC, unless a Roman Army faced incredibly great losses, you'd not see them break. An army that routed was doomed to suffer "decimation" of their ranks when reformed (drawing lots and having to personally beat every tenth man in their own numbers to death.) Unless they had absolutely no confidence (and I do not mean disliked or hated) their leaders, they would not retreat unless given such orders without first succumbing to terrible losses. Also, IIANM, there are cases where some would break trusting to their luck that their leaders would be later found incompetent, only to be decimated prior to such judgement being passed. Roman soldiers knew well that the penalties for fleeing were steep. An exception might be made to this high morale in times when larger numbers of slaves had been pressed into service (not with the penalties, but with the chance of routing.)

Anywoo...

Perhaps some of the CMG Group Combat Feats will give you some ideas-

http://www.creativemountaingames.com/games/lexus/lexus_group_combat.pdf

Also, I'd suggest that the standard for each unit could be enhanced/warded with protections and spheres of anti-magic, so too their brooches(Fibulae). Shields (Scutum) varied in size with the eras and locations that troops were serving but it is not unreasonable to assign the same attributes to them as tower shields since they could often be 42" tall and 33" (curved) across.

As an aside, I think if the Roman Empire actually had the chance to use magic they would have had divine and arcane casters assigned to each and every cohort, possibly to individual centuries and maybe even down to the squad level.
 

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