Venite, omni qui legonium Romae scient!

Here is an idea from my campaign that also features a Romanesque culture.

The legion standard has been enchanted through the history of the unit by the unit's wizards and priests, mostly with defensive spells, such as being able to impart a limited spell turning upon a cohort that the standard is with. Given the mystique that surounded the eagles / standards of a real world legion, imagine what would go into a DnD world eagle / standard.

As for tactics for dealing with magic on the battefield:
Use opposing wizards to counter-spell or, preferably, wipe out the opposing spellcasters. Have light cavalry harass the opponent's camps at night to try and disrupt the wizards eight hours of rest during extended campaigns. "scouts" should be sent out to find and "neutralise" the enemies spellcasters, both before, during and (if you win and are pursuing survivors or being pursued) after the battle.

A ruthless army might train their troops to make sure that enemy casualties are dead and not just injured, to prevent healing magic from being as useful to the enemy.

Look into seige warfare techniques and see what sort of defensive precautions a beseiging army can use to get close to a fortification with minimal casualties, such as pavises or mantlets.
 

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Tiberius said:
They have also convinced the local hill giants (a generally peacful bunch) to help defend the province from the invading monarchists. These giants will probably act as mobile artillery platforms.

Don't forget their use as shock troops. Even as irregulars, hill giants can mete out a world of hurt on a troop; even if the troop has gone to an open formation to avoid area spells.

Don't forget overlapping mobility-hampering spells. If you can spring those on troops engaged in advancing, then you can keep them there for your lovely artillary barrage.
 

These are great ideas! Thanks, everyone!

I especially like the idea of having enchanted standards. While enchanting the shields or brooches of each legionaire would be nice, I'm not sure it would be terribly affordable. Would a Globe of Invulnerability shut down healing potions and the like as well, or just cast spells?

The combat feats look interesting, as does the suggestion of having century- or squad-level spellcasters. I gotta remember that my world is a pretty magic-rich place, so spellcasters aren't necessarily rare, especially in a place that might cultivate them for their armies.

I had expected to hold the giants back and not have them engage in the actual melee, but adding their clubs to the battle would probably draw the PCs out to fight them. That would make the combat a bit more interesting than it otherwise might be for the players. Excellent.

-Tiberius
 

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Emiricol said:
Also, I don't think the Romans used tower shields, at least not in general. They were large, but not that large. Overlapped, their effect was multiplied.
I know, but I think the mechanic would be about the same as that for tower shields, since when used in the tortoise formation the Roman shields serve about the same purpose. So the soldiers would get a nice boost to Reflex saves. The problem is that, even when halving via saving throw, the damage from a 5d6 fireball can be enough to slice through many 1st level soldiers and leave the rest with massive injuries. Is there a rule about near-total cover granting Evasion? I seem to recall it, but IDHTMIFOM.
 

Hey, what if someone summoned a Balor and told it "Look, you see that army there? It's yours; drag their souls screaming to the Abyss as you please". That would be eeeeeevil, but fairly effective.
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Venite, omni qui legonium Romae scient!

The problem is that, even when halving via saving throw, the damage from a 5d6 fireball can be enough to slice through many 1st level soldiers and leave the rest with massive injuries.
Only raw recruits (tyros) would be 1st-level though -- and it is a fireball we're talking about.
Is there a rule about near-total cover granting Evasion? I seem to recall it, but IDHTMIFOM.
Nine-tenths cover gives +4 Ref, half damage if save is failed, no damage if successful.
 

Greetings!

Ave, Caesar Tiberius!:)

Well, first off, one has to remember the enormous and absolute advantages that the Roman Legions--or their fantasy equivalents--have over their opponents. Now, what is the nature of these immense advantages and superiorities? To begin with, for these to have any kind of meaning, you must be prepared to enforce realistic principles of reality, concerning equipment, supplies, organization, combat skills, and psychology.

What does this mean? Well, it generally means that you cannot play the opposing forces with having perfect discipline, complete equipment and supplies, excellent fighting skills, and complete and thorough command and control. The Romans, however, had all of these things, and it is why they ruled an empire that lasted over a thousand years, and why their enemies ended up dead, in chains as slaves, or in the sands of the arena.

Some examples:

Enemy forces should be more effected by morale. The Romans have superior morale. The enemy will break and run when they suffer, say 25% or more casualties. The Romans won't break though, hardly ever. This also means that when one unit or another lets say gets hit by two or more fireballs. The Romans wouldn't break up their formation and run, but the enemy will. Imagine being doused by burning, flaming jelly. Be sure to play the enemy as having a weaker, more fragile morale than the Romans.

Enemy commanders make mistakes more often, and more severely. They don't have the ability to understand the nuances and the dangers of different Roman tactics. Provide the enemy forces with some healthy negatives in whatever skill checks you deem appropriate--like Knowledge (War) for example, to represent them *not* being a professional military force.

Command and Control: This goes along with the aforementioned, but is also different. The enemy units and formations DON'T do what the leaders and commanders WANT them to do. It's hard to explain, but enemy units and commanders just don't "See" what the Romans see, and they don't operate in good formation, they don't change formation instantly when ordered to do so, they don't move in the direction that they are ordered to go, or if they do, they don't do it fast enough, or coordinated enough to be effective when they do get to where they were supposed to be. For example, the commander wants them to move 100 yards to the left, and attack an enemy archer unit. The commander wants them to do it NOW--when they need to really attack and hit the archers hard. Instead, what happens?

The unit doesn't hear the order, or they don't understand it fully for five or ten minutes, then when they do move to attack, only 75% of them do so, because the other 25% just get strung out and don't get it. The 75% that do get going in the direction they are supposed to get charging, but along the way, they get wrapped up in fighting with some enemy Legionnaires that have moved to block them. Finally, a number of desperate minutes later, say 30-50% of the original force actually makes it to where the Roman archers are, and attack. But all during this time, the archers were firing at them, and now an element of Roman cavalry has charged into the enemy force, further disrupting their attack on the archers.

What is the result? The Roman archers suffer 5-15% casualties, but remain a disciplined and devastatingly effective force, which continue to rake the enemy with fire. The enemy forces that made the attack? Well, they suffered 40-60% casualties, and in the end, after doing some damage, they retreat in failure back to their original position.

You have to integrate the "Fog of War" fully into the battle, and be sure to include the screaming, the dying, the sheer terror of battle. These factors go into bringing confusion into the forces ability to operate efficiently, while these things are true with the Romans, it is the Romans discipline and professional training, and command and control, that minimises these realities and their effects, upon the Roman forces. The enemy isn't prepared for this, and as the battle continues, their forces' morale erodes, and they become less and less coordinated, as they head increasingly into being defeated by the Romans.

Next point--the Romans professionalism even reached the lower commanders, so that unlike their enemies, even when the Legate's commands were not delivered in time, or were not understood fully, the Roman commanders where trained and professional enought to be able to figure things out, improvise, and still make different attacks work effectively, even often guessing exactly what the Legate would want them to do, so the Roman operations would be successful even under the most confusing of situations. This kind of "Command Resiliency" isn't something that the enemy forces have either.

Supplies and Equipment: The Romans are fully equipped for everything in war. They have plenty of Scorpions and catapults, siege towers, rams, and so on. Plus, the Romans can dig trenches and make fortifications in mere hours or days. Much faster than the enemy forces. Give the Romans a few hours, and they should have effective fighting trenches dug that give them some protective cover, and traps that hinder enemy cavalry charges or raids into the Roman area. Overnight--or three days, and you should up the advantages for the Romans considerably. Also, the Romans are more innovative. They use stakes, pits, traps, burning oil, deception, all kinds of things in their prosecution of war. The Romans might also make a night attack against the enemy encampment, or they may make feint attacks, just to keep the enemy forces agitated until the real attack comes at dawn, from the entirely opposite direction, because while the Legate sent 10% of the Legion at one point to make spoiling raids throughout the night, he left another 10% at the encampment to move about and set all the watch-fires to make it look like the encampment was full and occupied, when in reality, the Legate has taken the remaining 80% of the Legion in a long night march in a great circle to approach the enemy encampment at dawn from the rear--where the Roamsn then pour into the enemy encampment with the element of surprise, and the enemy is immediately confused, and soon slaughtered, for example.

The enemy isn't going to have all the extra weapons and equipment and tools that the Romans will have. The enemy might run out of arrows, for example, or fresh water. If the Romans start a brushfire, and the smoke billowing through the area makes the enemy more thirsty, they drink more water, and deplete their water supplies at a faster rate. The Romans, however, have plenty of water, and will always have plenty of arrows, extra swords, javelins, armor, and so on.

Ok, these concepts must be integrated or else the Romans' superior training and discipline don't really mean much. These ideas are difficult to integrate as a "mechanic" per se, but that is where you, Tiberius, the DM, must take all of these details and factors into consideration. The enemy will simply not have all of these advantages, and it should be remembered that it isn't neccessarily *one* of these factors that are so decisive for the Romans, but it is a grand mixture of *all* of them working together, like a well-oiled machine. The Romans didn't do any of this by mere chance and wishful thinking. They *practiced* doing all of these things, under all kinds of weather, in all kinds of terrain, on 2 hours of sleep, no food for two days, while making the legionnaires march an extra four hours out of their way just to add to the pain and exhaustion. The enemies of Rome didn't train this way, and were never physically--and more importantly, *psychologically* equipped to fight war the way the Romans did. The Romans *MASTERED* the art of war.

So, remember, make sure you integrate all of these factors into any battle that the Romans are engaged in. As an added note, the Roman legion operates all as ONE--totally united, totally disciplined, totally committed, and totally trained--to engage in any battle. The enemy forces simply do not have this kind of esprit de corps.

As for the magical battle at hand, well, remember, even against undead, the Romans will know that such exists, and will have equipment, tactics, and training to respond to them effectively. Enemy wizards will be targetted by groups of hunter-killer groups of archers and rogues designed to target and swamp enemy wizards and clerics for death. Don't pull any punches, and this is where the Roman discipline can shine yet again. The Romans will stand there even in a vulnerable position in order to finish off the wizard or the cleric. Make the battlefield very dangerous for enemy wizards and clerics, because the Romans would make it a top priority to have the enemy wizards and clerics killed, while attempting to keep their own wizards and clerics alive and protected.

To give you another perspective, real-life Romans often fought battles where they were outnumbered two, three, or four to one--and the Romans routinely emerged victorious. Think about how awesomely effective one Roman legion would be in this battle, let alone two or three, as some are on the way as reinforcements. The enemy doesn't have much hope, even if they think they do. They had better pray to their gods, and pray well, for soon they will meet them. The Romans will send them there when battle is joined!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
 

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mmadsen said:
Only raw recruits (tyros) would be 1st-level though -- and it is a fireball we're talking about.
A 1st level soldier would have four, five hit points and a 5d6 fireball would deal about 17, 18 damage. Half that is still too much. Even 2nd level soldiers would be in big trouble. I suppose soldiers between 1st to 3rd level would comprise the majority of an army, with characters of above that level being subofficers or officers.
Nine-tenths cover gives +4 Ref, half damage if save is failed, no damage if successful.
Perfect! So a soldier with +0 REF save has around 50% chance of taking half damage and 50% of taking none (assuming a CD 15 for the fireball). A fireball on a tortoise formation would wipe out half of the 1st level troops and severely damage half of the 2nd level troops (the rest can survive the damage). It's nasty damage, but much, much less than what a simple formation would have suffered. Considering that the enemy's 3rd level spells are likely a very scarce resource, it's not too bad.
 

Over 100% casualties?

A note on casualty figures:

One casualty is one soldier killed, wounded, or missing.

It is possible for a soldier to be wounded, treated, returned to duty, and wounded again, and thus count as two casualties.

Casualty rates are calculated against unit base strength, not base strength plus reinforcements. So a 600 man unit that takes 200 casualties in each of three battles, but through replacement is returned to full strength before each battles, has taken 100% casualties.

Interestingly, because of learning rates in combat, it tends to be the newest soldiers that become casualties -- so for example in the example above, the unit could still have 50% of its original members despite having taken 100% casualties, since most of the subsequent casualties come from replacements.

We now return to the discussion of Roman tactics, where I vote for:

- Reach weapons,
- Tower shields,
- Siege Engines,
- Illusionary units, and
- Lots of readied dispel magics
 

You´ve it seems only one problem, your PC s haven´t a welltrained organiced medieval army with organised foottroops like Barabarrossas slesian footroops, harolds housecarls or the citicen militia of flanders or the swiss Pikemen(who had many crossbowmen and Hellbaardiers in their rank)
500 light inf, how are they equipped?
The archers which wepons Long or shortbow, good longbowmen like the english could made target practice with the standard roman shortbowmen,
the slingers if they come in range with their fire bullet ouch.
300 medium cav, what means this?
How much cav did the romaqns have?
remember gothic cavalry mopped the floor with valens army, the´army was annihilated.
And roman legions and roman commanders were no supermen.
Trasimenic lake, Cannae, Carrhae, Varus, the yoke of samnium,
The wars against the germanic tribes, the gothic, even in their best days they were unable to take the parthians or persians out.


Medieval commanders normally had studied Vegetius
http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~madsb/home/war/vegetius/dere00.php3
The weak link of the legion are their supply, normmáslly they operate in 10 - 12 days range of supply from théir depot, and if they begin really to fourage hunting time.

The problem is the troops don`t trust the baron(I wonder why he breath?), I don`t know what forces the baron start with, but medieval footrrops weren`t necessary or usually peasant rabble.

Look at this link it discusses the effect of a roman army vs Medievalarmy.

http://netsword.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000219.html
 

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