Very first thoughts after reading 4e PHB

[hamishspence]

about that price range, yes

Hundred and twenty plus books, all bought new, or close to it. And I'm still interested in 4th ed: see them as ideal sources of homebrew conversion and flavour info. Not entirely happy with some things of 4th ed, but happy with enough to take it up.

 

[Quartz]

So far, it seems to me that there's a vastly bigger shift when going from 3.xE to 4E than from 2E to 3E. In the latter case, THACO got inverted and changed to BAB, the spells hardly changed, saves were simplified, and lots of options were added, but for single-classed characters it was pretty much the same, just expressed differently. Of course, things got more complex later on. But with 4E, I'm having to start from scratch, it's so different.

 

[Nikolai II]

So far, it seems to me that there's a vastly bigger shift when going from 3.xE to 4E than from 2E to 3E. In the latter case, THACO got inverted and changed to BAB, the spells hardly changed, saves were simplified, and lots of options were added, but for single-classed characters it was pretty much the same, just expressed differently. Of course, things got more complex later on. But with 4E, I'm having to start from scratch, it's so different.

Let's see - 3.5 to 4.. BAB is simplified to Wizards progression, spells and saves are simplified and lots of options are added while many things about the classes are the same..

But I like 4Ed so far. It is about as difficult as 1Ed, it plays a lot like 1Ed, but it is less "seat of pants" and more of "look, you get a few gauges. We still trust in your skills, but you have help in that more things are possible to measure now."

 

[Mistwell]

I read through the 4E PHB and DMG. My truest opinion is this is not D&D. I have been playing the game for over 20 years and never did I think it would turn into what it is in 4E.

It feels like they took all the ideas they had for classes. Poored them into a big pot. Stirred it up and then filled up several bowls. Each bowl being each class, but everyone got the same amount. The flavor for each class really feels the same, mechanically they are the same. Where is the spice that seperates each? Might as well call them all pablum.

I can only hope that more will come to fix these problems. Because right now this system feels rushed.

As for the DMG it provides little to a DM that he does not already know. Most of it could have been put into the players handbook alone.

Ultimately I don't feel this system was the best choice that WoTC could have done, in fact I would rank it up with the 5th Age Dragonlance System.

But if you like it then more power to you. I think it is good for a starting RPG to get people into the game who either have never played one before or wouldn't because they love mmo's too much. Then moving on to something better.

However for those of us out there who don't like it we will go with Pathfinder.

You're view would be more persuasive if you said you played the game several times and then came to a conclusion.

I understand the thread is about first thoughts after reading, but you posted more than just your first thought but instead what sounds like your last thoughts.

Which of course reminds me of this article:

http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/commentary/alttext/2008/06/alttext_0618

 

[Mistwell]

I have played the follow versions of D&D:

Red Box
1E AD&D
2E AD&D
5th Age Dragonlance
3E D&D
3.5E D&D

For MMO accredidation let me add the follow:

Everquest
World of Warcraft
City of Heroes
Requiem
Star Wars Galaxies
Neverwinter Nights

So to directly answer your question no. I probably will but I was asked my thoughts after reading it not after playing it by the OP. Based on that I gave my opinion.

After extensive years of playing and dming this is not the D&D I have grown up to love and enjoy. Also after my extensive time with MMOs I can safely say without even playing this system that reading the book it feels to me like MMO on paper.

"Posted: 1:48 a.m. by specsheet Hey, everyone. I can tell just by reading the recipe that if you prepare eggs benedict as written, the sauce will separate. My mom always said the other kids made fun of me because they were jealous of my intelligence, so I must be right. Everyone who's saying that they followed the recipe and it came out perfect is either lying, or loves greasy separated hollandaise sauce. "

You cannot safely say that after reading the book it will play like an MMO, or won't feel like D&D to you in play. You can suspect that, but you cannot know that (and I know you said it feels like an MMO on paper, but the implication is that it will therefore play like an MMO).

And given reports from many many people who thought on first reading the books just like you do, but after playing they thought differently, I strongly encourage you to play it a few times. You might be wrong, and you would be cheating yourself out of fun because of preconceived notions.

Much like I will reserve judgment on Pathfinder until I play it, even though it doesn't read like a good game to me I also know it might play quite well.

 

[Keltheos]

What's this whole 'It isn't/doesn't play/feel like D&D' complaint that keeps coming up over and over and over again?

Does it play like a fun game? Then who cares if it's D&D?

Why must it 'play like D&D' for it to be entertaining? If they're going to make it play the same why bother with a new edition?

/whew, got that out of my system.

 

[Dragonstriker]

Thank you for saying what so badly needed to be said.

 

[Keltheos]

Welcome.

Honestly, the biggest harm WotC did to the game was calling this new experience in RPG'ing D&D in the first place.

 

[The Little Raven]

Honestly, the biggest harm WotC did to the game was calling this new experience in RPG'ing D&D in the first place.

Ummmmm, no.

It's the 4th Edition of D&D. That's a fact. Some people might not like the edition, preferring other editions for whatever reason, but saying that it's "not D&D" is just petulant and silly. It's a symptom of the "one true way" mentality.

 

[Fifth Element]

It's the 4th Edition of D&D. That's a fact. Some people might not like the edition, preferring other editions for whatever reason, but saying that it's "not D&D" is just petulant and silly. It's a symptom of the "one true way" mentality.

No true Scotsman would consider 4E to be D&D!