Video game influences on my D&D

[Canaan]

It puzzles me why someone would put so much effort in a post intended to raise the tenor of the thread, only to completely tarnish their efforts by closing their post with an incendiary, partisan (and quite unncesseary) political commentary in their closing.

It puzzles me even more so why such a poster would do so on an avowedly non-political board.

1. It was no effort at all to respond to his post. So let that trouble you no more!

2. I toyed with the idea of not responding to this at all, because well, I've lost interest in the topic. But I eventually decided that I felt the need to respond to you. Perhaps it's ego. Who knows.

3. My analogy was indeed one with political content. I apologize if I broke some rule or other by doing so. But I don't apologize for the analogy. It is the most appropriate analogy to properly express my point.

4. Perhaps I would have chosen something less controversial if Shilsen's comment didn't raise my hackles the way THOSE PEOPLE do, which happened to be in my mind at the time of writing my post.

To sum up, be puzzled no longer. I release you from puzzlement! You are free! Fly!

 

[I'm A Banana]

The sky isn't falling.

There are many things D&D could learn from videogames. In working on my own adaptation, I've found out that fusing the two makes D&D simpler and more story- and character-focused than it ever has been before, upping the role-play ante and smoothing over a lot of the rough bumps. Quite the opposite of what a lot of chicken littles are crying, actually.

The knight isn't even the worst offender, actually. The combat map is. The measurement of everything in a standard 5-ft increment, and the placement on this map being key to the conditions of victory is one of the most video-gamey things about D&D these days. And yet, even that has a long, storied history deep in D&D's roots as a wargame where strategic mastery of the battlefield is key to victory.

Videogames started out ripping off D&D. It's about time D&D got it's due from videogames, too.

 

[satori01]

I want a game that is fun. Frankly if an idea from a MMORPG is good, then great, lets incoporate it.

Most MMORPGs have classes, and alot of them, more than 4.
People like classes. Same is true of D&D, from the begining.
Basic added classes to become 1e, 1e added classes in Arcane Unearthed and in "NPC" classes in Dragon. Sure they were "NPC" classes, but I know I adventured with a Kensai/Dreamer or two.
2E added kits, and 3.5+ has received great feedback from base classes in the complete series, and other Third Party books.
As I said people like classes, which I think translates to people like variety, which I also think translates to people like customization.

People also like Feats and Skill points, many people xpress a desire to see characters get more of both. Both help define a character.

Many people also express a desire to see the game go away from mandatory wealth levels and magic items playing such a huge role in a characters power.

All in All, I think the mood of the game is actually going away the MMORPG.

 

[Maggan]

I bet when 4.0 comes out, and it will alot sooner then I ever want it to. You will have 4 core classes Warrior,Adventurer,Arcane Caster, and Divine Caster you will have a ton of options at every level, or just Feat points kind of like skill points and all feats will have diferent costs. The magic system will be the next to go and we will have mana points and mana potions, all characters will get kicker hit points ala KoTDT or DDO, and the level cap will be no more everything will keep going and no need for epic characters or special rules.
Monster will have 10,000 hit points and players will easily do 100's.

All this is BAD and screams I want to roleplay a computer game, if I wanted to play a computer game I would. I want to sit around and play D&D not WOW with dice.

Most if not all of what you list has been present in roleplaying games since the 1970's. I started playing rpgs in 1982, and we game we used (not D&D) had the equvivalent of mana potions.

So I think the main problem with your analysis is that it fails to take into account the literally thousands of rpgs other than D&D that has influenced videogames, as well as having influenced D&D.

D&D is the main influence for many computer games, sure. But computer game designers play many other games than D&D, and many other rpgs as well.

So no, it doesn't scream "I want to play a computer game". It's merely different design paradigms, or even just different design decisions.

And seriously, how many more black clouds can gather over WotC. This "video game" rally cry has been around for ages and ages, and I've read comments about it related to all editions of D&D.

Actually, he situation now really means that when anyone says "it's video gamey", it doesn't mean anything. It's such an overused blanket generalisation that it's lost its meaning.

/M

 

[hong]

Geez, guys. Video games and D&D have been enjoying a symbiotic relationship for a very long time now. Nobody complains when D&D borrows from a movie, but borrow from a video game and all the grognards go up in arms.

The grognards never quite got over how you couldn't argue with a DM in a video game.

 

[shilsen]

The grognards never quite got over how you couldn't argue with a DM in a video game.

"In a video game, nobody can hear you whine"?

Maybe that should be a new marketing slogan for D&D.

 

[Jedi_Solo]

My first experince with D&D was through a video game: Pool of Radiance (1988). While I'm not entirely sure if the pen and paper game actually had any changes made because of the game it was popular enough to spawn many, many sequals (Curse of the Azure Bonds, Secret of the Silver Blades, Pools of Darkness, 2 Savage Frontier games, 3 Dragonlance games and so forth).

Two Buck Rogers games followed closely (Countdown to Doomsday (1990) and Matrix Cubed). I replayed Countdown recently and I was surprised at how much the skill system in the game resembled the current 3.X skill system (Class and cross-class style setup, ranks + stats (instead of stat bonus) + equipment bonus vs DC).

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Ultima and Zork had an affect on D&D somewhere along the way as well. Take a look at Final Fantasy Tactics (1998). It has an advancement system very, very close to 3.X Class/Feat system.

Do I have any proof that these games have had an impact what-so-ever on the pen and paper D&D? No. But video games are not a recent occurance and I find it hard to believe that no video game has had an impact before now. Both sides see things that the other side is doing and think it will help their own side. Some ideas will transfer over well and others will not. I don't think the sky is falling. Or, if it is then it has been for so long (in my mind at least) that I no longer take notice.

 

[Hussar]

Oh, but, Jedisolo, we must protect the game from the evils of outside influence. We must ensure that nothing disturbs the orthodoxy of the holy trinity of Howard, Leiber and Tolkein.

 

[Pickaxe]

Yeah, that's what they said about THAC0 and the old saving throws. And has anyone seen my sacred cows named Heal, Harm, Haste and Hold Person recently? Not that they were bad changes, but they were "sacred cows". My point being, I don't think the current designers of D&D are all that interested in preserving "sacred cows" anymore.

THAC0 and old saves were sacred cows? I saw them more as awkward mechanics that were made more sensible in 3e. If these are sacred cows, then some cows must be more sacred than others. Game mechanics are probably more likely to change than the iconic classes, races, spells, and monsters, simply because RPGers will sacrifice an old game mechanic for a better one, but they still want to be able to create characters, adventures, and worlds that remind them of what they played in the earlier editions. Even some mechanics (like Vancian magic) are sacred enough (at least to some) to endure new editions. And I think the designers at WoTC realize how their D&D bread is buttered. If you make D&D a pen-and-paper video game, where's the market? Why would a video gamer switch to the tabletop for the same game? The D&D market will always center on those who like how the tabletop game is different from the video game.

--Axe

 

[Shade]

I seem to remember something about the feats system being inspired by Fallout. If so, I say "thanks video games!"