D&D 5E Volo's 5e vs Tasha's 5e where do you see 5e heading?

[Minigiant]

This.

5E is interesting in that the production/marketing philosophy seems to be to make each book as useful to as many customers as possible, but from a design philosophy 5E isn't particularly different from other editions. Early in its life cycle it established the core and solidified the primary setting. Later it started to introduce new ideas and branch out setting wise. We are apparently moving into the next phase: experimentation with some core concepts. But I think we are still quite a ways away from the Book of 9 Swords "throwing crap against the wall" phase.

3.0 came out in 2000
3.5 came of in 2003
TOB:BO9S came out in 2006

It's about time.

 

[Reynard]

3.0 came out in 2000
3.5 came of in 2003
TOB:BO9S came out in 2006

It's about time.

It is not about number of years, it is about where it is in the publication cycle. WotC has intentionally slowed that cycle with 5E, producing far fewer books over a longer period of time with a much larger emphasis on evergreen adventures rather than mechanics bloat. 5E is nowhere near the same place in its cycle that 3.x was 6 years in.

 

[Minigiant]

It is not about number of years, it is about where it is in the publication cycle. WotC has intentionally slowed that cycle with 5E, producing far fewer books over a longer period of time with a much larger emphasis on evergreen adventures rather than mechanics bloat. 5E is nowhere near the same place in its cycle that 3.x was 6 years in.

I don't think the slow speed can be kept up. As much as TCOE is liked, they are scraping the bottom of the barrel. I don't think they have enough ideas that can be squeezed into the conservative classes, races, and monsters. They don't have 20 more subclasses for a new Xanatar's/Tasha''s if they jam 2 subclasses in every new setting book.

Sales will drop if they continue at a snails pace with these ideas. It is time to go big or revise.

 

[Disgruntled Hobbit]

I don't think the slow speed can be kept up. As much as TCOE is liked, they are scraping the bottom of the barrel. I don't think they have enough ideas that can be squeezed into the conservative classes, races, and monsters. They don't have 20 more subclasses for a new Xanatar's/Tasha''s if they jam 2 subclasses in every new setting book.

Sales will drop if they continue at a snails pace with theseideas. It is time to go big or revise.

I'm confused
The game is "scraping the bottom of the barrel" and running out of ideas because of the slow speed?
If they're out of ideas, isn't increasing the speed going to make them run out of ideas faster?

 

[Parmandur]

I don't think the slow speed can be kept up. As much as TCOE is liked, they are scraping the bottom of the barrel. I don't think they have enough ideas that can be squeezed into the conservative classes, races, and monsters. They don't have 20 more subclasses for a new Xanatar's/Tasha''s if they jam 2 subclasses in every new setting book.

Sales will drop if they continue at a snails pace with theseideas. It is time to go big or revise.

That does not seem to be the case.

 

[Minigiant]

I'm confused
The game is "scraping the bottom of the barrel" and running out of ideas because of the slow speed?
If they're out of ideas, isn't increasing the speed going to make them run out of ideas faster?

The slow speed is hiding the fact that they are out of ideas that can fit in the current race, monster, and class systems.

There is no path forward with their strategy. They have at most 2 years before major slippage. And 2 years is kind. Path of the Wild Soul? They are nearing the wall. It's Go wild, Revise, or Restart time.

 

[tetrasodium]

=

I'm confused
The game is "scraping the bottom of the barrel" and running out of ideas because of the slow speed?
If they're out of ideas, isn't increasing the speed going to make them run out of ideas faster?

The bottom of the barrel is where patience & tolerance for stagnation ends. There is only so much patience that can be expected of people who notice crack in the 5e rules foundation over time or just find themselves bored with the level of mastery they've acquired over a very very simple ruleset that minimized tactical & resource management elements. What's more is that they are entering the d20 era of not d&d 5e versions of 5e spinning off away from wotc's stagnant d&d 5e. I can think of 3coming out in the next year (stargatehoenix, levelup, anime5e) with two in the next month or so & all of them taking it in remarkably different directions with their own rules modifications that will continue to diverge from the core it started with just as paizo & pathfinder did.

TCoE probably did more harm than good wrt continuing a slow pace aiming for geologic timescales. People who were already scraping bottom or at a point where they could see bottom on the horizon heard it get talked up like the next unearthed arcana/phb2 with empty talk about new rules new variant mechanics etc. When it finally came out there was a reprint of some gm facing stuff, a handful of player facing options, and... and.... it's still basically the exact same game leaving everyone with expectations feeling like charlie brown watching lucy yank the football away even more dramatically than the last few times.

 

[Blue]

The slow speed is hiding the fact that they are out of ideas that can fit in the current race, monster, and class systems.

There is no path forward with their strategy. They have at most 2 years before major slippage. And 2 years is kind. Path of the Wild Soul? They are nearing the wall. It's Go wild, Revise, or Restart time.

Citation please.

They had plenty of ideas for month-a-book ideas. We've finally gotten one of the long time requests in psionic subclasses. There's a heck of a lot more ideas that can be mined from early editions to mix in and extend new ideas.

 

[Reynard]

I don't think the slow speed can be kept up. As much as TCOE is liked, they are scraping the bottom of the barrel. I don't think they have enough ideas that can be squeezed into the conservative classes, races, and monsters. They don't have 20 more subclasses for a new Xanatar's/Tasha''s if they jam 2 subclasses in every new setting book.

Sales will drop if they continue at a snails pace with theseideas. It is time to go big or revise.

"WotC and D&D have their strongest year ever."
also
"5E is on its last legs!"

 

[Reynard]

=

The bottom of the barrel is where patience & tolerance for stagnation ends. There is only so much patience that can be expected of people who notice crack in the 5e rules foundation over time or just find themselves bored with the level of mastery they've acquired over a very very simple ruleset that minimized tactical & resource management elements. What's more is that they are entering the d20 era of not d&d 5e versions of 5e spinning off away from wotc's stagnant d&d 5e. I can think of 3coming out in the next year (stargatehoenix, levelup, anime5e) with two in the next month or so & all of them taking it in remarkably different directions with their own rules modifications that will continue to diverge from the core it started with just as paizo & pathfinder did.

TCoE probably did more harm than good wrt continuing a slow pace aiming for geologic timescales. People who were already scraping bottom or at a point where they could see bottom on the horizon heard it get talked up like the next unearthed arcana/phb2 with empty talk about new rules new variant mechanics etc. When it finally came out there was a reprint of some gm facing stuff, a handful of player facing options, and... and.... it's still basically the exact same game leaving everyone with expectations feeling like charlie brown watching lucy yank the football away even more dramatically than the last few times.

So, there's a version of D&D out that does all that and while it seems like it is doing okay, Pathfinder 2E is not killing 5E and taking its stuff...