VoP vs. Call Weapon

[Sejs]

While a Great Sword with Bless cast on it may not be as hard and tough as a Holy advenger, they are both concidered magic objects.

No, the greatsword with bless cast on it is a mundane object with a spell currently operating on it, and a holy avenger is a magic object.

Dispel the greatsword and the spell goes away never to return. Dispel the avenger and it's suppresed for 1d4 rounds.

You can Shatter the greatsword, you cannot Shatter the avenger. Etc, etc.

 

[Artoomis]

...Since no one seemed to care about can and cants of a Vop, i'll explain the reasons.

A Vop character quite simple belives in two things.

1) Poverty is not a Luxury, by taking these vows he lives his life to serve the people who are need.

2) Himself. A Vop character has the power of self faith to accomplish the job at hands, so he doesnt need magic items to help beat down the goblins who are raiding poor villiges, however, a Vop character is not above getting help from thier allies in a time of need.

Called weapon still breaks the Vow. Its No magic items, not no magic items unless it benifits me.

---Rusty

Note, however, that while the Vow does not specify this I would not expect a VoP character to ASK for help. Graciously accept it yes, ask for it, no.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Quick question:

how does VoP respond to flameblade? Will a VoPer break their vow by casting a spell that creates a bladelike energy weapon?

If not, what's really the difference between an energy blade of mystical force that is only present for a short period of time and a called blade that is only present for a short period of time, given that neither can be bought, sold, or even given to anyone else? Since dispel magic will banish the called weapon, is there a real difference between the two beyond pedanticisim?

 

[Artoomis]

Quick question:

how does VoP respond to flameblade? Will a VoPer break their vow by casting a spell that creates a bladelike energy weapon?

If not, what's really the difference between an energy blade of mystical force that is only present for a short period of time and a called blade that is only present for a short period of time, given that neither can be bought, sold, or even given to anyone else? Since dispel magic will banish the called weapon, is there a real difference between the two beyond pedanticisim?

The difference is one is a physical magical item being used (if you buy into the fact that it is a magic item), aboslutely against the vow, the other is simple an energy manifestation and so is permitted.

The Vow is all about black and white, not shades of gray. Items that are prohibited are prohibited, period. That's regardless of their source or how long they stick around, or ownership, even.

 

[irdeggman]

Just for the record Bless can't be cast on objects.

Bless Weapon (a paladin spell) is the one that works on weapons.

 

[Blightersbane]

Our groups take on it (and this thread helped tremendously)

The weapon summoned has 0 worth, it in and of itself did not violate the VoP so long as the weapon summoned was a base simple variety of its kind. The "magic" the summoned weapon comes with does violate the VoP, and sense the power does not offer the ability to augment the power to disallow the magic to overcome DR we have ruled against its eligibility to a VoP’er.

Many posts on this thread seem to be debating if the Call Weapon power delivers a magical weapon or not and wither this "magic" violates the VoP. The power description clearly states the weapon is to be treated as a magical weapon to overcome DR. Wither this is a useful magic or not is irrelevant the fact is the magic exist and therefore violates the VoP as the VoP is very clear about barring any & all magical.

Thank you all

Blightersbane

A brief continuation
We have also ruled that any psionic, divine or arcane spell/power requiring material components above natural ingredients is herby disallowed and that player must buy the feat eschew materials, any materials including spell books worth more than 1 gold violates the flavor of the VoP.

Natural ingredients defined as dirt, rock, a grasshopper, a twig etc

 

[irdeggman]

Consistent and strict ruling.

Although I still don't like that a soulknife is the one class pretty much forbidden due to the magic enhancement of his mind blade - and that is pretty much the entire class' abilities.

 

[Artoomis]

How is a Soulknife's blade, which is a "shimmering blade of semisolid psychic energy," in opposition to the VoP?

This has been brought up a number of time but seems like an excellent fit with VoP to me.

Am I missing something?

That aside, some classes are simply not suitable for the VoP due to reliance on some material goods (such as a Spell Book) and I'm just fine with that.

 

[irdeggman]

How is a Soulknife's blade, which is a "shimmering blade of semisolid psychic energy," in opposition to the VoP?

This has been brought up a number of time but seems like an excellent fit with VoP to me.

Am I missing something?

That aside, some classes are simply not suitable for the VoP due to reliance on some material goods (such as a Spell Book) and I'm just fine with that.

Because it is a weapon and is magical (at higher levels).

Mind Blade (Su): As a move action, a soulknife can create a semisolid blade composed of psychic energy distilled from his own mind. The blade is identical in all ways (except visually) to a short sword of a size appropriate for its wielder. For instance, a Medium soulknife materializes a Medium mind blade that he can wield as a light weapon, and the blade deals 1d6 points of damage (crit 19–20/x2). Soulknives who are smaller or larger than Medium create mind blades identical to short swords appropriate for their size, with a corresponding change to the blade’s damage. The wielder of a mind blade gains the usual benefits to his attack roll and damage roll from a high Strength bonus.

The blade can be broken (it has hardness 10 and 10 hit points); however, a soulknife can simply create another on his next move action. The moment he relinquishes his grip on his blade, it dissipates (unless he intends to throw it; see below). A mind blade is considered a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

A soulknife can use feats such as Power Attack or Combat Expertise in conjunction with the mind blade just as if it were a normal weapon. He can also choose mind blade for feats requiring a specific weapon choice, such as Weapon Specialization. Powers or spells that upgrade weapons can be used on a mind blade.

A soulknife’s mind blade improves as the character gains higher levels. At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, the mind blade gains a cumulative +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls (+2 at 8th level, +3 at 12th level, +4 at 16th level, and +5 at 20th level).

Even in places where psionic effects do not normally function (such as within a null psionics field), a soulknife can attempt to sustain his mind blade by making a DC 20 Will save. On a successful save, the soulknife maintains his mind blade for a number of rounds equal to his class level before he needs to check again. On an unsuccessful attempt, the mind blade vanishes. As a move action on his turn, the soulknife can attempt a new Will save to rematerialize his mind blade while he remains within the psionics negating effect.

Now wizards can still take Spell Mastery so that they can cast spells w/o a spellbook - but the calss is strictly limited becasue of this. A soulknife, on the other hand doesn't have a choice - and that is his only ability (well - essentially his only ability).

Some classes are better choices than others but the soulknife would be the only base class that would not work at all.

 

[Blightersbane]

The semi solid mind blade does not violate the VoP, it has $0 value, any magical bonuses it comes with does. This is a tough one it would have to be house ruled, maybe sub a feat in place of any +1 and the psychic strike is something cast by the player so its ok, or is it?
Yah this is a tough one that would be house ruled to death. But I do like the idea behind the class itself, just not with the Vop.

Blightersbane