VoP vs. Call Weapon

[Artoomis]

I don't buy it. The Soulknife's weapon may be identical to a normal magical weapon in most repects, but it clearly is NOT an actual weapon - it's formed pyschic energy, not an actual magic weapon, thus it does not violate the Vow in any way. It is just like spells that create temporaray weapons from magical energy.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

You can receive a spell, you can’t use any stuff than has become a magic item. Your friend hits one of your possessions with a spell that makes it a magic item, you take it off because it is a magic item and you tell your friend not to do that again. <edit>

No, the greatsword with bless cast on it is a mundane object with a spell currently operating on it, and a holy avenger is a magic object.

I agree with the latter position- a mundane object targeted by non-permanent magic is not a magic object.

Indeed, since the ascetic's weapons are by definition not masterwork, they fail a neccessary prerequisite of being magic weapons.

A soulknife, on the other hand doesn't have a choice - and that is his only ability (well - essentially his only ability).

There was a question raised elsewhere about the interaction of the VoP and magical tattoos of a Tattooed Monk (or whatever the PrCl was called). The ruling was that the magical tattoos were a class feature and their use was not in conflict with the Vow.

I would rule similarly with the Soulknife. His blade is a class feature- indeed, it is the feature that defines the class.

As for the side issue of the spellbook, I also allow those. The only value of a spellbook is in the spells inscribed in it, presumably by the owner- straight off of the PHB equipment list, they are not truly valuable at all. Since the value is not inherent, but added by the ascetic, it is no more barred to him than if he took skills in a craft (say, Craft textiles) acquired some raw materials and a simple loom and created a well-made but simple robe for himself.

So by a strict reading of the VoP the following spells could never be used:

By the strictest reading of the VoP, there are a HOST of spells that could never be used because there are some who believe that since a divine focus is not part of a spell component pouch, it cannot be used by an ascetic.

I no longer have the thread bookmarked, but I once listed all of the spells that required the use of a divine focus- most of which are core spells for a holy person, and thus it is VERY counterintuitive to bar the holiest of the holy from casting. I'm talking about spells like Attoneme, Bless, Protection from {fill in the blank}...anything remotely resembling the duties of RW clergy.

Oh, and Turning...again, a counterintuitive power to bar from those most beloved of/dedicated to a divine force.

 

[irdeggman]

By the strictest reading of the VoP, there are a HOST of spells that could never be used because there are some who believe that since a divine focus is not part of a spell component pouch, it cannot be used by an ascetic.

I didn't mean spells that the ascetic casts himself but rather spells cast on him/his weapons by others.

Those spells make the items magical.

{I didn't say I agreed with this, only that using a strict reading of the VoP they apply}

 

[Artoomis]

...By the strictest reading of the VoP, there are a HOST of spells that could never be used because there are some who believe that since a divine focus is not part of a spell component pouch, it cannot be used by an ascetic.

I no longer have the thread bookmarked, but I once listed all of the spells that required the use of a divine focus- most of which are core spells for a holy person, and thus it is VERY counterintuitive to bar the holiest of the holy from casting. I'm talking about spells like Attoneme, Bless, Protection from {fill in the blank}...anything remotely resembling the duties of RW clergy.

Oh, and Turning...again, a counterintuitive power to bar from those most beloved of/dedicated to a divine force.

An ascetic may have certainly a Holy Symbol. It could be inscribed upon (or actually be the top of) the allowed quarterstaff/walking stick or upon the allowed food sack. Since it is relatively easy to do anyway, it seems silly not to allow a simple (no cost) Holy Symbol made by the ascetic him/herself.

 

[Artoomis]

I didn't mean spells that the ascetic casts himself but rather spells cast on him/his weapons by others.

Those spells make the items magical.

{I didn't say I agreed with this, only that using a strict reading of the VoP they apply}

No they don't. They make the items be normal items with a magical spell cast upon them. Not the same at all.

Note that the DMG more-or-less defines Magic Items at the beginning of the Magic Item chapter and ordinary weapons with "Magic Weapon" cast upon them certainly do not fit the definition.

Note, however, that an "everburning torch" IS a magic item (IIRC), so the line is not always perfectly clear - of course that's a permanent effect, so that makes it different right there, perhaps.

 

[frankthedm]

An ascetic may have certainly a Holy Symbol. It could be inscribed upon (or actually be the top of) the allowed quarterstaff/walking stick or upon the allowed food sack. Since it is relatively easy to do anyway, it seems silly not to allow a simple (no cost) Holy Symbol made by the ascetic him/herself.

Holy symbols are a specific equipment item with a gp cost. Even made from wood, they represent days of work for most craftsmen.

 

[Artoomis]

Holy symbols are a specific equipment item with a gp cost. Even made from wood, they represent days of work for most craftsmen.

A holy symbol MAy be purchased, yes. But I see no reason why it cannot be carved upon a quartestaff by the ascetic him/herself. It might be crude, but effective.

Nothing seems to prohibit this.

 

[frankthedm]

equipment item with a gp cost.

 

[irdeggman]

equipment item with a gp cost.

Actually this is incorrect, an ascetic can use ordinary (neither masterwork nor magical) simple weapons.

For examples of weapons that are specifically allowable and their cost – remember that all simple weapons are allowed:

Light Crossbow (35 gp)
Heavy Crossbow (50 gp)

Compare that to the cost of weapons specifically forbidden (any non simple weapon):

Short sword (10 gp)
Long sword (15 gp)
Greatsword (50 gp)

So the cost of the weapon in question is not the “deciding” factor.


You are also allowed to carry and use a spell component pouch (cost 5 gp).

 

[Ceska]

Since the VoP allows simple clothing and other (very minor) possessions I think it´s not against the fluff of the VoP to allow a holy symbol, especially when the holy symbol is very crude and perhaps selfmade. And i would allow a kind of branding on the arm or forehead as an substitute for an holy symbol.