Vorpal and Sharpness reborn

[kreynolds]

Incorrect.

Gotcha. I should pay better attention. My bad. Ironically enough, out of the 8 games that I currently run, not a single person uses burst weapons, not even my NPCs. Go figure.

But the comparison is still pretty fair, as at high levels, many creatures are immune to the various types of energy enhancements, but nothing is immune to force damage. Sure, you won't crit often, but boy oh boy, when you do, it'll hurt like hell.

 

[Mortaneus]

IMC, I've been using the following for over a year now, and it's worked quite well:

Sharpness: +2, adds +1 to the crit multiplier. Thus, a x2 becomes a x3, a x4 becomes a x5, etc.

Vorpal: +5, adds +3 to the crit multiplier. It's powerful, does horrifying amounts of damage on a crit, and also avoids the whole 'snicker-snack = dragon-steaks' problem.

 

[Tarin Greenflame]

That is definetly another good option as well.

 

[Al]

I don't follow the argument that seems to assert that this one doesn't make you die. I don't mind the x6 crit multiplier- that's fine. What I do find a tad powerful is a) the Fort save vs damage dealt, and b) the ignoring of critical hit immunity.

a) This essentially brings it in line with the old vorpal. In the old days, you just died. With this version, you have an impossible Fort save (the example of 12d6+180 can mean a Fort save DC of well over 200), so you basically die anyway.

b) Brings it past the old vorpal. That was the only way of stopping vorpal weapons- now this takes away that sole defense, making this version impossible to stop in any way.

Instant death, with no defenses except rolling a natural 20 on your save? Bit powerful, even for +5. Get rid of b), and it seems fine.

 

[kreynolds]

Sharpness: This potent and feared enhancement bears an extraordinarily sharp blade. Upon a successful critical hit, a planar rift, allowing the weapon to cut through even the hardest materials, replaces the blade of the weapon. The sharpness enhancement deals an additional x4 force damage. For instance, a longsword deals 1d8 points of damage per hit. So a sharpness longsword will deal 1d8 (normal damage) + 1d8 (normal critical damage) + 4d8 (sharpness damage) points of damage. Also, sharpness weapons completely bypass the hardness of all objects they strike.

A sharpness weapon must be a slashing weapon. The damage dealt by a sharpness weapon is force damage and can even harm creatures that are immune to critical hits.

Caster Level: 18th; Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, gate, keen edge; Market Price: +3 bonus.

and...

Vorpal: This potent and feared enhancement bears an extraordinarily sharp blade. Upon a successful critical hit, a planar rift, allowing the weapon to cut through even the hardest materials, replaces the blade of the weapon. The vorpal enhancement deals an additional x6 force damage. For instance, a longsword deals 1d8 points of damage per hit. So a vorpal longsword will deal 1d8 (normal damage) + 1d8 (normal critical damage) + 6d8 (vorpal damage) points of damage. Additionally, upon a successful critical hit, the target must make a successful Fortitude save (DC = damage dealt) or die instantly.

A vorpal weapon must be a slashing weapon. The damage dealt by a vorpal weapon is force damage and can even harm creatures that are immune to critical hits.

Caster Level: 18th; Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, finger of death, gate, keen edge; Market Price: +5 bonus.

Alright folks. Those are the latest versions. Basically, the only changes were the market price modifier for Sharpness, as well as adding the Gate spell as a prerequisite for both (couldn't think of a more appropriate spell).

Al? Could you do me a favor and break down that example of damage you gave me? I'd like to see where it's all coming from so I can tweak this.

 

[Steve Conan Trustrum]

I don't speak Klingon. What's that mean?

To err is human (?)

 

[Al]

Damage Breakdown:
Basic Damage:
2d6 (Greatsword)
+5 Weapon
+2 Weapon Specialisation
+24 Strength (how? here goes: 20 str base, +5 advancement +5wish +6enhancement +6greater rage gives a score of 42, for +16 modifier, x1.5 for 2handed weapon is 24)
=2d6+31

x6 = 12d6+186, DC well over 200.

But that's irrelevant. Any high-level fighter can get DCs well into the 60s at least.
Even using the DMG fighter with a moderate Str and the minimum weapon :

d10 (Bastard Sword)
+7 (Strength, 15+3advancement+6belt of strength=24)
+1 (Weapon, minimum)
+2 (Weapon Spec)
=d10+10 (average 15.5)

x6 = average 93. And that's the bog-standard DMG fighter.

Now, the point is: in the old days there was no save. Fine. But what the problem with the new vorpal is that it ignored immunity to crits.
In the old days, there was one way to avoid vorpal: immunity to crits (or many heads)
Nowadays, there is no way to avoid it *whatsoever*, short of rolling a natural 20 to save (unless you have a Fort save in the 70s or so).
That is my objection: revoke the bypassing immunity clause and you have a perfectly reasonable and interesting reworking.

 

[AGGEMAM]

My version

Maybe it's time I put my version here:

Sharp: Doubles crit range and damage multiplier (check the multiplying multipliers rules). The doubling in crit range stacks with other sources of improving crit range. CE: +3 bonus

Vorpal: Squares the crit damage multiplier (eg, a Scythe has a crit multi of x4, to square that add another of the same multiplier, here x4, and then double that by adding a x2, to become a x8 crit multiplier). A succesfull crit is considered a CDG, except the DC is equal to the total damage dealt. CE: +5



Al, how about breaking this down.

Oh ... and I would like to have a +2 adamantine keen sharp vorpal mercurial greatsword and have the imp crit feat.

 

[kreynolds]

x6 = 12d6+186, DC well over 200.

EDIT: Whoa! Al. I just noticed something really important. You're doing this all wrong. This version of Vorpal does not multiply all of your damage. Here, I'll show you. The incorrect part is in red.

=2d6+31

x6 = 12d6+186

The correct expression would be:

=2d6+31+12d6

It is not:

=2d6+(31x6)+12d6

Here's another way to look at it (ripped from one of my posts on an older thread and updated):

Vorpal Longsword: On a critical hit, 2d8 (critical damage) + 6d8 (vorpal damage) + strength mods + misc modifiers (not multiplied).

Vorpal Greatsword: On a critical hit, 4d6 (critical damage) + 12d6 (vorpal damage) + strength mods + misc modifiers (not multiplied).

Vorpal Dagger: On a critical hit, 2d4 (critical damage) + 6d4 (vorpal damage) + strength mods + misc modifiers (not multiplied).

You calculate your critical damage just like normal, then you add the vorpal damage on top of it. You do not, however, do this: calculate normal critical hit damage then multiply by 6.

The Fort save is still pretty high though, so I pitched the following idea too my group last night: Drop the Fort save or die function and raise the vorpal damage to x8.

 

[RobNJ]

I am an idiot. Ignore my post on this.