Vorpal Crits

[hamishspence]

damage die

it said "Damage die" for a falcion was 2 d4, so by strict reading of the term damage die (since it says A damage die can be expressed as multiple dice) you'd have to get both. Unless there is a ruling otherwise.

Vorpal says: You can reroll any damage die that comes up max and add it in.

Are they defining damage die as only weapon damage die (so you can't reroll critical dice, sneak attack, etc)?

Or are they defining damage die as any dice rolled for damage (so all critcial, sneak, hunters quarry, etc, have chance of exploding as well?)

And which thread has the answer?, since its not in errata as far as I can tell.

 

[RefinedBean]

Heck if I know, buddy.

I thought I saw people talking about re-rolling the d12's that came up through a crit or the Vorpal's daily power, so perhaps you can.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Wrong again Dlichen, you are good at being wrong, hopefully you get paid to do it:

Originally: I asked Andur to leave the thread.

Edited: However, it has been pointed out that Rel has already spoken about this in the thread and that you have been moderating your language since then, so I retract that instruction.

Regards

 

[DLichen]

Alright, I did the math: d4s after gaunts of destruct + vorpal average 4.5 damage.

A 7[w] attack on a noncrit deals 7[9] = 63

A 7[w] attack on a crit deals 7[8] + 6d12 = 95

That's assuming you don't get to reroll those d12s either.

Hopefully, that puts to rest the noncrit beating the crit myth.

As for damage die, according to custserv, a 2d4 attack is rerolled with vorpal whenever one of the die is a 4, so that's the rule I'm using for now.

 

[RefinedBean]

As for damage die, according to custserv, a 2d4 attack is rerolled with vorpal whenever one of the die is a 4, so that's the rule I'm using for now.

Wow, really?

Awesome stuff.

I'm off to go get me a vorpal scythe...

 

[Zsig]

So, let's see if I got this right. Suppose I'm a Fighter/Kensei/Demigod level 26, with the following stats:

Str 26 (+8)
Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade) (+3),
Kensei Mastery (+4),
Devastating Critical (+1d10 on a crit),
+6 Vorpal Falchion (+6, +6d12 on a crit).

Then I attack with Reaping Strike, which deals 2[W]+strength modifier if you hit.

Hit:
Total Damage: 4d4 +8 +3 +4 +6 = 4d4+21
Then, each and every 4 that comes up when I roll for damage I get to roll again and add to total damage.

Critical Hit:
Base damage: 16 (4x4) +8 +3 +4 +6 = 37
Critical Damage: 6d4 (high crit) +1d10 (devastating crit) +6d12 (vorpal)

Total Damage: 37 +6d4 +1d10 +6d12 and I get to reroll these if they come up 4, 10 and 12 respectively.

Sounds quite straight forward to me, and to me the rules are intended the same way they're written.

Also, I don't understand how someone could say that a critical would be weaker than a regular hit, look at all the dice you're rolling.

Finally, but not least important, magic items in 4E are balanced by their Item Level, so theorethically, a Level 30 Weapon should be as good (or as broken) as any other Level 30 Weapon. Just because Vorpal used to be insta-death on a natural 20 in 3.X, it doesn't mean it has to be this way in 4E.

 

[Unkabear]

I really wanted to root for the roll the maxed damage die side myself, but darn Zsig and a very well laid out example.

 

[Vempyre]

Vempyyre, that is fine, just make sure not to add feat, enhancement, power, unnamed or any other types of bonuses to critical hit damage either, in otherwords you are saying the examples given in the PHB are all wrong when they give out critical damage.

In this case, "rather than" means, "rather than waste 2 hours of your life rolling until you get maximum damage on the dice..."

even though we do add bonus dmg to it like feats n such, unlike ongoing dmg or fixed dmg like cleave.

.. determine the maximum damage you can roll

So it's not a roll, but you determine (not roll, determine, it's important to make the difference) the max damage you would have done if you had rolled. Not a roll = no rerolling max dice since it's not even a roll (talking about vorpal here) but determining max dmg we could have rolled tells ya to add the bonus dmg due to feats, stats, etc as if you had rolled but only for the purpose of the determination, it's doesn't mean it's a roll as the 1st part of the text clearly states.

There is always a thousand ways to interpret words, even simple and clear words known to all. It's all about culture. Anyway, to me the text is simple and clear and leaves no doubt, especially when you have the background knowledge of how 4E is built and how it's power level curves at this or that lvl. If one would say that the text isnt clear (it is, but for some it isn't), just look at items of similar lvl. Making the vorpal do max+roll+crit dice would make it way beyond other items of it's lvl especially when used with 7[W] or 5[W] powers which are common at that lvl of play.

 

[Danceofmasks]

D'oh!
I seem to have forgotten to add 56 damage to the successful scythe crit.

 

[hong]

Onwards to page 8!