Vorpal Crits

[hong]

I'm not understanding this "infinite damage" loophole.

I crit with a vorpal weapon and get max damage on the "roll." I then reroll those dice. Any of those that deal max damage can be rerolled. That's it. If you keep getting maximum results, you keep rerolling. But getting that forever seems... unlikely. Clearly I'm misunderstanding the argument on some level.

It comes in trying to treat English words as terms of art.

 

[Danceofmasks]

I think, as far as I can tell, the infinite damage loophole is due to the vorpal effect not being extra damage caused by a critical hit.
Thereby your rerolled 4s will also get maxed, and rerolled, ad infinitum.

 

[hong]

I think, as far as I can tell, the infinite damage loophole is due to the vorpal effect not being extra damage caused by a critical hit.
Thereby your rerolled 4s will also get maxed, and rerolled, ad infinitum.

Of course, this loophole only matters to people arguing about the rules on a forum, as opposed to applying the rules in play.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Or programming a computer game .. when you'll end up with an actual infinite loop, and the program freezes.

 

[DLichen]

You can play the game however you like, that doesn't change what the rules actually say.

 

[Andur]

Ok, so there is a very close thread thread on the Wotc Boards: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1040042

Looks like someone over there asked about critical hits in post 76: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1047354&page=3

The answer would support that the dice for the crit have indeed "rolled" their maximum value.

awaiting Hong's "to page nine" post...

 

[hong]

Onwards to page 9!

 

[erik_the_guy]

HOLY SHARK!!
So no one answered for hours, then I come on the next day to find 5.45*10^12 responses.

The general consensus seems to be that the the damage dice that are automatically maximized by the critical hit do indeed count for a re-roll. It seems as though one has great incentive to use a high crit weapon for this purpose.

EDIT: Oh wait, no it isn't.

Thanks for the responses and the link to the WotC forum.

 

[DLichen]

Um, no, that's the exact opposite.

The general consensus is that it is not, both in this thread and wotc.

 

[erik_the_guy]

it said "Damage die" for a falcion was 2 d4, so by strict reading of the term damage die (since it says A damage die can be expressed as multiple dice) you'd have to get both. Unless there is a ruling otherwise.

Vorpal says: You can reroll any damage die that comes up max and add it in.

Are they defining damage die as only weapon damage die (so you can't reroll critical dice, sneak attack, etc)?

Or are they defining damage die as any dice rolled for damage (so all critcial, sneak, hunters quarry, etc, have chance of exploding as well?)

And which thread has the answer?, since its not in errata as far as I can tell.

Since the rules say to re-roll "any" damage die, I think they mean any one die, not each set of 1[W] that turns up maximized. It seems to follow that this would include sneak attack, quarry, curse, and the bonus d12s you gain from a vorpal weapon when you score a critical. Also the bonus d12s from the daily power.