Vorpal Crits

[erik_the_guy]

Um, no, that's the exact opposite.

The general consensus is that it is not, both in this thread and wotc.

Oh, poop.

 

[DLichen]

As far as I can tell, the two primary pros for rolling weapon damage again:

1. Maximized or not, you did a damage roll - True, but just because you did a damage roll does not mean you actually rolled the dice since the critical rules state that you just count up the max damage from the roll without actually rolling the dice, which is what triggers vorpal. If you wish to challenge this point, please explain the "Rather than roll the dice" passage.

2. But vorpal crits now do less damage than regular vorpal hits! - False, look at the math, the extra 6d12 which probably get rerolled more than makes up for it.

 

[hong]

Um, no, that's the exact opposite.

The general consensus is that it is not, both in this thread and wotc.

I am rather surprised that it is possible to interpret

All the damage you would have dealt if the attack was not critical hit is dealt and all dice rolls are considered to be the maximum possible roll

As crits not being considered rolls.

 

[DLichen]

Crits use the damage roll rules because otherwise things would break.

That doesn't mean crits trigger vorpal. I again refer to the "Rather than roll the dice" passage.

Vorpal doesn't trigger off a maxed damage roll, but the actual 4 on a d4. This is also why when you roll 2d4, you roll again when you get a 4 on one dice, not only when you get an 8.

 

[erik_the_guy]

Okay, so you don't get to re-roll the dice maximized by a crit. You do get an additional 6d12 from the weapon for landing a crit however, and if I am correct you re-roll these if they are maximum. Also, for a high crit weapon, you get to re-roll those dice if they are max, correct?

Thank for those who posted multiple times to make sure that the information drowned out the misinformation!

 

[hong]

Crits use the damage roll rules because otherwise things would break.

That doesn't mean crits trigger vorpal. I again refer to the "Rather than roll the dice" passage.

You seem to be implying that the physical act of rolling the dice is actually needed to get a max damage result.

Vorpal doesn't trigger off a maxed damage roll, but the actual 4 on a d4.

A 4 on a d4 is a maxed damage roll.

 

[DLichen]

A damage roll is defined to be some multiple of your damage die + bonuses

There is a difference between colloquial definitons and rules definitions. Feat, stat, racial bonuses aren't rolled, but they're still part of the rules definiton of damage roll.

You seem to be implying that the physical act of rolling the dice is actually needed to get a max damage result.

That is exactly what I'm implying since that's is what vorpal states. Vorpal clearly says "Whenever you roll the maximum result on any damage die for this weapon, roll that die again and add the additional result to the damage total. If a reroll results in another maximum damage result, roll it again and keep adding."

It doesn't say when you roll maximum damage. It says when you roll the maximum result on a damage die. You skip rolling damage die when you calculate crit damage, ergo, you don't apply extra [w] damage.

 

[hong]

A damage roll is defined to be some multiple of your damage die + bonuses

There is a difference between colloquial definitons and rules definitions.

There is no difference, unless one wants to make a difference.

Feat, stat, racial bonuses aren't rolled, but they're still part of the rules definiton of damage roll.

And this is because feat, stat and racial bonuses aren't random.

 

[DLichen]

And this is because feat, stat and racial bonuses aren't random.

Oh? What about sneak attack, hunter's quarry, and the like?

They are part of the damage roll. Just because they're random doesn't imply anything.

 

[hong]

That is exactly what I'm implying

I want to watch your game. It must be a hoot, rolling dice and then ignoring the results.