Vorpal Crits

[Andur]

Yes you do, since it was the maximum you could roll.

 

[hong]

Right, so what are we arguing about again?

Let's be clear, when we roll a crit with a vorpal weapon:

1. 20 yay
2. I am using a vorpal longsword +6 so I deal 2[w] being epic for 16+6+whatever misc bonuses
3. I then get my final result and add 6d12 to the roll

DONE

I do not roll 2 more d8s because I rolled maximum on two die I didn't actually roll.

No, this is what you do on a crit:

Critical hit:
1. start with 16+6
2. roll [2w]
3. if max, goto 2
4. roll 1d12
5. if max, goto 4
6 repeat 4-5 6 times, once for each plus
7. add up

 

[hong]

Onwards to 4 pages!

 

[DLichen]

Yes you do, since it was the maximum you could roll.

Ok, now we get to the heart of the issue.

Does vorpal trigger when you deal max on a damage roll only or do you have to roll the dice.

I argue that just because you dealt damage as though you rolled maximum on the dice does not imply that you actually rolled the dice.

The key word there is DETERMINE, the wording does not imply that you carry on as though you rolled maximum damage or that it triggers vorpal's ability.

 

[DLichen]

No, this is what you do on a crit:

Critical hit:
1. start with 16+6
2. roll [2w]
3. if max, goto 2
4. roll 1d12
5. if max, goto 4
6 repeat 4-5 6 times, once for each plus
7. add up

Reposting your flow chart does not clear anything up at all. Why would you roll [2w] when vorpal didn't trigger because you didn't roll damage die?

Vorpal is explicit in that you must roll damage die to get bonus die, whereas crit says you determine how much damage you can do without rolling.

 

[hong]

Reposting your flow chart does not clear anything up at all. Why would you roll [2w] when vorpal didn't trigger because you didn't roll damage die?

It triggers because you did. You just happened to get the maximum result.

 

[DLichen]

It triggers because you did. You just happened to get the maximum result.

Why would you assume you did?

Rather than roll damage,
determine the maximum damage you can roll with
your attack. This is your critical damage.

Why would it clearly say "rather than roll damage" there? Determine the maximum damage you can roll does not imply that you actually rolled the damage, just that you did the max possible.

 

[hong]

Why would you assume you did?

By using the plain-English vernacular meaning of "roll the die" to mean "get a reading from a random number generator which happens to look like a polyhedral thingy". You just happened to get the maximum result automatically because it was a crit.

 

[DLichen]

By using the plain-English vernacular meaning of "roll the die" to mean "get a reading from a random number generator which happens to look like a polyhedral thingy". You just happened to get the maximum result automatically because it was a crit.

The problem is that it says maximum damage you can roll with your attack.

Unless english is significantly different where you're from, just because you can do something doesn't mean you actually did it.

I can roll a max of 6 on a d6, I don't need to roll a dice to find that out.

 

[Obryn]

I am 95% sure there was another thread here regarding whether or not a crit counts as "rolling" damage.

I wish I could remember where, but IIRC you got some nonsensical results if you didn't consider a critical damage to be "rolled."

-O