Vow of Non-Violence

[Three_Haligonians]

I have a character who I'm thinking of giving the Vow of Non-Violence. The problem is that she does not worship any god, she's more of a humanist. My DM has already ruled that she can still become exalted, even though she's not religious. Our stumbling point is how to give her exalted status while considering her standpoint on religion. Any ideas anyone may have would be extremely useful, and appreciated. Please keep in mind that my DM has already ruled this is okay.

Also, the vow mentions that allies within a certain range will suffer a -1 morale penalty if they attack helpless foes. It also says that a person who has taken the vow cannot simply turn her back while her friends kill a helpless or defenceless humanoid/monstrous humanoid. It doesn't mention anything else about what the responsibility of the person who took the vow has to checking the actions of her allies. For instance, if her friends paid no attention to her personal views and continued to kill helpless humanoids, how would that affect her vow? And what if she was the kind of person who felt that everyone has the right to make their own choices, and did not impose her beliefs on her allies? Is she still fullfilling the terms of her vow?

Finally, if a humanoid agrees to swear an oath of noninterference/surrender, how far does her responsibility go to that creature's safety? If they are in a dangerous dungeon, would she have to escort it to safety? And what if one of her allies killed it anyway?

Okay, that's all. Thanks in advance!

R from Three Haligonians

 

[Anabstercorian]

I don't see why the religious angle is an issue at all. You have a supernaturally virtuous humanist, they have the aforementioned powers, they come from within and not from a god, but if their virtue falters so too does their power. I mean - I'm not seeing the problem here.

For instance, if her friends paid no attention to her personal views and continued to kill helpless humanoids, how would that affect her vow?

Assuming she still aggressively attempted to stop this behavior, her vow would be unbroken.

And what if she was the kind of person who felt that everyone has the right to make their own choices, and did not impose her beliefs on her allies? Is she still fullfilling the terms of her vow?

She sure as heck isn't. This is what's known as failing to stand up for what you believe in, and, in general, being a huge wuss.

Finally, if a humanoid agrees to swear an oath of noninterference/surrender, how far does her responsibility go to that creature's safety? If they are in a dangerous dungeon, would she have to escort it to safety? And what if one of her allies killed it anyway?

She SHOULD make every REASONABLE attempt to protect that creature from harm. If they are in a dangerous dungeon, she would not be obliged to escort it to safety UNLESS that she had good reason to believe that failing to do so would essentially sign the critter's death warrent. A good measure could be, if you ran in to this critter in the dungeon and it had NEVER attacked you, and had IMMEDIATELY left you alone, how would you have treated it (assuming you're exalted and non-violent by nature)? Treat it that way.

And if one of her allies killed it anyway she should express her dissatisfaction with this behavior as explicitly and aggressively as she could. She would be within her rights to withhold healing and succor from people who toy with her vows in this way.

 

[Three_Haligonians]

Er . . . it is a Vow of Non-Violence. I'm not sure about dealing with her allies "aggressively".

Anyway, my question about the religious/humanist thing may not have been clear. What I'm asking is, what kind of event could this type of character experience to make her exalted. The example given in the description of how to become exalted is swearing an oath before a celestial. I'm wondering if you have any less religious ideas.

Thanks,

R from Three Haligonians

 

[Andor]

You don't want a less religeous idea, you want a less deific one. I'd suggest either an aestetic ordeal. Or a lengthy mediation exercise. Possibly a pilgramadge to a site of significance to the character. Or an audiance with whomever she learnt her philosophy from.

 

[Li Shenron]

I have a character who I'm thinking of giving the Vow of Non-Violence. The problem is that she does not worship any god, she's more of a humanist. My DM has already ruled that she can still become exalted, even though she's not religious. Our stumbling point is how to give her exalted status while considering her standpoint on religion. Any ideas anyone may have would be extremely useful, and appreciated. Please keep in mind that my DM has already ruled this is okay.

I don't know why you worry about this, it seems to me that a non-religious character can be exalted as well as a religious one. Indeed in RL there have been historical figures of non-violent and pacifist paragons who weren't religious, at least in the sense that they weren't affiliated to any existing organized church. A non-violent character may embrace love for all beings, and as such almost all traditional D&D deities actually bring problems which a deity-less character doesn't have.

If you're also looking forward some sort of event to represent in-character the change of becoming exalted, I think a philosophical epiphany (such as a buddhist's enlightment through meditation) is simple and effective. Otherwise a sudden change may be provoked by a traumatic event, e.g. witnessing an amazing display of goodness or evilness by someone else may awake the vow in the character.

In case you have access to some library, you may read about RL champions of non-violence, or otherwise about legends of saints and martyrs.

Also, the vow mentions that allies within a certain range will suffer a -1 morale penalty if they attack helpless foes. It also says that a person who has taken the vow cannot simply turn her back while her friends kill a helpless or defenceless humanoid/monstrous humanoid. It doesn't mention anything else about what the responsibility of the person who took the vow has to checking the actions of her allies. For instance, if her friends paid no attention to her personal views and continued to kill helpless humanoids, how would that affect her vow? And what if she was the kind of person who felt that everyone has the right to make their own choices, and did not impose her beliefs on her allies? Is she still fullfilling the terms of her vow?

I think the whole point of playing a PC with this sort of vow is that you want to play a PC with this sort of vow! If the player is not playing an utterly and irrevocably nonviolent pacifist, why not playing a "regular" good PC? The character idea of the vow is extreme and very difficult to play, and that's IMHO the real meaning of "for mature audiences only" here. It's very difficult not just for you but for the whole party and the DM; in fact, if you have doubts that the whole gaming group is supporting your choice, don't play the character. It changes the game completely IMO, and if your group isn't seriously willing to try, don't try yet...

 

[Dagger75]

Shepard Book from Firefly might also be a good example of a person with a vow on non viilence hanging out with people who have no such vow.

I one episode he keeps the rest of the crew from attacking a prisoner. Just a thought.

 

[Piratecat]

Shepard Book from Firefly might also be a good example of a person with a vow on non viilence hanging out with people who have no such vow.

I one episode he keeps the rest of the crew from attacking a prisoner. Just a thought.

Of course, he's also quite good at shooting people in the knees -- but your point is a good one. He's the moral conscience of the group, trying to lead by example.

 

[Laurel]

This may end up complicating things, but could give the DM something to mess with later on The character may not worship any god, but a God or Godess can choose to hear the vow and take that person in- even without them knowing about it.

Since you and the DM agree that it doesn't have to have the diety however, a simple meditation of finally reaching that center calm could work very easily (as mentioned in someone else's post above).

There's also always killing a loved one, by accident...

Also, the vow mentions that allies within a certain range will suffer a -1 morale penalty if they attack helpless foes. It also says that a person who has taken the vow cannot simply turn her back while her friends kill a helpless or defenceless humanoid/monstrous humanoid. It doesn't mention anything else about what the responsibility of the person who took the vow has to checking the actions of her allies. For instance, if her friends paid no attention to her personal views and continued to kill helpless humanoids, how would that affect her vow? And what if she was the kind of person who felt that everyone has the right to make their own choices, and did not impose her beliefs on her allies? Is she still fullfilling the terms of her vow?

I had always taken it to mean that by not standing by or simply turning his back, he has to interfear with an ally attacking a helpless foe. So if he asks them to please stop hurting that creature, and they ignore him. Then he needs to take a stronger action, his ally then is words.
He may feel that everyone has a right to make thier own actions, but just as he is stopping that evil creature form doing evil deeds, to the vow takers reasoning hurting those that are helpless and defenceless is wrong as well. Thus just as the evil creature had to be stopped from hurting others, so must his allies. This does not mean he should go kill his allies, but it would be fun RP and could end in a stand off.

Finally, if a humanoid agrees to swear an oath of noninterference/surrender, how far does her responsibility go to that creature's safety? If they are in a dangerous dungeon, would she have to escort it to safety? And what if one of her allies killed it anyway?

The questions of what if one of her allies killed it anyways all dpends on the situation. If the ally toyed with it first then killed it, the oath is broken since it could have been stopped by the oath taker. If though let's say the creature is in the rear and the vow taker in front and an ally standing next to the creature suddenly knifed it in the back.... well, the oath taker suffers no penalties then.

In general I would say the creature surrendering is on thier own. You won't attack it, and neither will your allies, but you don't have to give up your life nor the life of you party, nor whatever you are trying to find/save for the surrendered enemy. You can't however impede it, like ties its hands and feet together tightly....

 

[JackGiantkiller]

The PC in question has chosen a life of complete nonviolence. That PC should not tolerate any attacks on those who have not attacked first, and should discourage attacking even those who do. Someone who is devout enough in this belief to draw power from it should willingly step in the way of a party member's sword, being killed if needful, to prevent harm to another sentient being.

It is a neat idea, but IMHO not suitable for PC's. First or second session the properly played pacifist has left the party or been killed trying to stop them, unless you somehow get a whole player group to be pacifists at once...and then coming up with an adventure is a tad more difficult. Not impossible. just difficult. And short, in a standard D&D world.

DM: The orcs are pouring down into the village lie a swarm of enraged ants. What do you do?

Players: We form a line and stalwartly refuse to be moved, while never raising a hand against our misguided orcish bretheren. This is the path of passive resistance.

DM: They cut you down like grass, and destroy the village.

 

[JackGiantkiller]

Double post. Sorry.