Vs. Minions: Why are combats so long?

[keterys]

Elites and solos, however, are a surefire way to prolong the length of combat, to the point where I am very careful in when and how I employ them.

Actually, on my warlord I find that I can make the combat go a lot faster with those types of critters, because I can give everyone bonuses to damage on the target much more effectively than I can on standards. Similarly, other characters can layer defense penalties and such.

Elites really don't last long when everyone has combat advantage and +13 to damage rolls against them. Nor do standards, really, but the one explodes and then the buff is gone

 

[Garthanos]

Its also really going to depend on the build: a ranger with Twin Strikes can chew through 16 minions in 8 rounds, while a fighter using only At-Wills is going to get through just one a round.

Rule one of S&S fighters...everybody takes cleave.

 

[keterys]

Even if someone is only killing one minion a round, that round should still only take them about 10 seconds. Lots of minions fights should be _fast_.

Personally, my fighter has 2 encounter powers that are close bursts, so unless we're in a hurry for some reason, I'm pretty sure he'd go through more than one a round that way.

 

[Amaroq]

Rule one of S&S fighters...everybody takes cleave.

Duh! I should know that, I have cleave! Its just been a long while since its been really useful for my fighter.

 

[DracoSuave]

Depends on the power, really.

Some powers have multiple attacks, either through being a close or area burst or blast, or by being twin-strike like. Those are -awesome- against minions.

Others are unavoidable damage, like Cloud of Daggers.

A runepriest might because of the Runic keyword and runestate benefits.

Astral Seal hands out hps.

Commander's Strike might go to someone with a better chance of hitting.

You might not have a basic attack worth speaking of.

Sure Strike, Valiant Strike, etc have better attack bonuses.

Sorcerers have Spellfury feats.

Free movement for you or an ally.

Monk.

The list goes on and on.


The thing is, you have two at-wills, and when it comes to a high damage at-will, IF you want a high damage at-will, you only ever need 1. A second damage at-will will either underperform in that role, or you need to retrain--which implies some form of utility or accuracy should be the goal of the second. (There are a couple exceptions, marauding rangers, for example.)

While that utility isn't necessarily good against minions, for some players it is, and thus that's the one you bust out.

 

[ggroy]

However, recognize that it means more people on the battle field. I could have 16 minions on the battlefield vs. 1 solo (i'm using extremes to show my line or thinking, i realize this is a corner case situation, but the concepts mentioned below carry through to less extreme situations).

16 minions take a lot longer if you don't have multi-target attacks. Also, it's 16 attack rolls (and potential damage rolls) for the DM vs. 1-2 attack rolls and damage rolls for the solo (since they often get more than one attack in a round).

That's also several more opportunities for opportunity attacks to sneak in there (which are good, but they do break a little of the flow when someone has to stop someone else and interrupt what the first person is saying/doing)

...

In my own experience, multi-target attacks and minions being clumped makes all the difference between fights with several minions taking a few rounds vs a couple rounds.

In my experience, tons of minions fighting a party without a controller can be a grindfest that lasts a long time. It starts resembling "death by a thousand cuts".

I don't really bother with many minions if the party has no controller, and/or if the other player characters don't really use their powers well which can take out more than one minion per attack.

 

[eriktheguy]

Minions dies so fast in my combats, so I don't know what the problem is. Is the entire team strikers that only target 1 at a time?
I usually don't roll minion attack rolls, try that.

 

[Alex319]

Minions dies so fast in my combats, so I don't know what the problem is. Is the entire team strikers that only target 1 at a time?
I usually don't roll minion attack rolls, try that.

What do you mean, don't roll minion attack rolls? You mean they all auto-hit, or all auto-miss, or what?