D&D 5E Vs Vecna battle simulations.

[DND_Reborn]

Again, I'd just use a strict reading of the ruling in the Sage Advice Compendium. Otherwise, if you just try to use common sense about what feels "magical," Vecna can just collapse into a pile of bones.

• Is it a magic item?
• Is it a spell? Or does it let you create the effects of a spell that’s mentioned in its description?
• Is it a spell attack?
• Is it fueled by the use of spell slots?
• Does its description say it’s magical?

That's it.

We discussed this a bit before.

For me, only IDS doesn't fit any of those. Divine Smite fails to "fueled by spell slots" and Ki-Empowered Strikes says "... your unarmed strikes count as magical ..." so fails the last criteria.

So, what is your take?

Also, as far as I can see, I think Malek will have to break out a torch and start burning Vecna... I don't think he has other options.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

You know high-level play is too complicated when a whole buncha hardcore D&D nerds have to side-discuss how everything works (with little consensus). There's a reason I usually start a new game around level 10.

 

[Charlaquin]

Again, I'd just use a strict reading of the ruling in the Sage Advice Compendium. Otherwise, if you just try to use common sense about what feels "magical," Vecna can just collapse into a pile of bones.

• Is it a magic item?
• Is it a spell? Or does it let you create the effects of a spell that’s mentioned in its description?
• Is it a spell attack?
• Is it fueled by the use of spell slots?
• Does its description say it’s magical?

That's it.

That would definitely mean Flight of the Damned, Vile Teleport, Dread Counterspell, and Fell Rebuke aren’t magical, which is pretty weird.

 

[DND_Reborn]

You know high-level play is too complicated when a whole buncha hardcore D&D nerds have to side-discuss how everything works (with little consensus). There's a reason I usually start a new game around level 10.

IME I blame more the loose "natural language" of 5E design, which (for better or worse) leads to a lot of interpretation / rulings.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

IME I blame more the loose "natural language" of 5E design, which (for better or worse) leads to a lot of interpretation / rulings.

Yes. I should have said high level 5e. I was perfectly happy to go to level 30 in 4e. And I played high level games in 2e (I don't remember any problems, but who knows if we were doing anything "right" back then). In 3e I only enjoyed the game much from levels 3 to 6 - after that I found it was too bogged down by corner-cases every turn.

I'm a little disappointed that's happening here, but not surprised.

Ultimately, I guess in 5e you need a DM to just choose a ruling and players to nod and move on. (They can choose differently in their own game).

For my group-DM opinion, I'd let the monk work because it only "counts as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance" and I'd let the paladin do the IDS radiant, but not weapon damage or normal smite.

And I was kidding before when I objected to Vecna going after Malek. He probably should try to get rid of the annoying arrows coming from somewhere over there.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Ultimately, I guess in 5e you need a DM to just choose a ruling and players to nod and move on. (They can choose differently in their own game).

This works well, IME

 

[Greg Benage]

That would definitely mean Flight of the Damned, Vile Teleport, Dread Counterspell, and Fell Rebuke aren’t magical, which is pretty weird.

Flight of the Damned isn't. I guess you have to allow that it's similar to the apparently non-magical dragon breath. The other three are magical, since they have spell names in their description, and assuming we allow that the name of the ability counts as "in the description."

In reality, antimagic field was obviously already problematic, but it will need another rework with the new stat blocks. We don't have the luxury of waiting for that, though, so in the meantime, I'd run the sim by RAW as clarified in the SAC.

As for all the rules debate and high-level play: Most of this stuff (e.g. sneaking, readied spells vs counterspell, etc.) would have been worked out at a real table early in the campaign, if not before it began.

 

[Smythe the Bard]

Well in that case with a look of disgust and contempt Leon will:
1. also grapple Vecna
2. Extra Attack with sword & IDS

 

[Greg Benage]

P.S. This is why Halaster carries a revolver.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Well, no point in waiting around forever since Smythe posted.

Leon's Turn:

1. Leon moves over to Vecna and grapples, failing to get hold of him (rolled 2+9 = 11 vs. Vecna's 17+3 = 20).
2. Frustrated, Leon attempts to grapple again and succeeds (1 + 9 = 10 vs. Venca's 1 + 3 = 4).

Unless Leon wants to use his second attack to grapple instead, it will be Malek's turn (who might as well join in the fun...).

EDIT: Updated with second grapple attempt per Smythe's request.

It is now Malek's turn.

update: if the initial grapple fails Leon will attempt another grapple.

Updated.