D&D 5E Vs Vecna battle simulations.

Stalker0

Legend
It would be cool to go with the "core 4" if someone wants to make a wizard and a rogue.

I think one of the letdowns about Vecna is they don't have a 9th level spell. It just seems weird to call him the master of magic when your PC wizard is packing better spells than an Archlich.

foresight or timestop are good candidates for "time travel" abilities.

Or....one idea is to give him Wish, but specifically note he only uses it to replicate 8th level spells. This maintains the 8th level slot powerlevel, but gives Vecna incredible flexibility, allowing him to tailor himself to any party that comes against him. This means as long as Vecna has any knowledge of whose coming at him....he will ALWAYS have something to bring to the table, no matter the combo. That to me seems a perfect way to ensure Vecna is never just tripped up by a specialized party combo.
 

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Stalker0

Legend
So weird, I did the same thing but only got CHA 12, not 13...

View attachment 252351

Like I said, it doesn't make a difference (same modifier), but you had to get it from someplace... :cautious: ;)


VT does do offensive damage, even if only 3d6, but he can hit as many creatures as he can in that 15 feet range...

I'll look through the spells, but off-hand I can't think of many that beat VT for healing, movement, and damage--even if minor. 🤷‍♂️
Here the breakdown if you are curious.

1656547690632.png
 

Stalker0

Legend
Sir Arthur updated with magic items. Again, I kept it pretty straight forward, nothing "cooky". +2 longsword, adamantine plate, and a luck stone.

ddb.ac/characters/77258905/5WCzzd
 


Stalker0

Legend
Oh, I was assuming standard array, so with point-buy apparently you'll have a bit better scores.
Ah, didn't know that either. But its all good, I mean I could minmax these scores a bit more but this seems fine. Again, I want to assume a somewhat organic character, not one that was "built to be level 20"
 


Stalker0

Legend
I also reserve the right to say, "I'm a 20th level character with 20 strength and tons of money....so pretty much any mundane item within reason I should have". Aka I don't want to take the time to add lots of mundane little items to the character, but he's 20th level, I think we can assume he's got his rope and his pack and a few flasks of acid, etc.
 

I have a little question.
I know I am a bit late. But in an anti magic field, magic does not work. Be it spells or magical items. How was the weapon able to hurt Vecna if he is immune to non magical damage? Wouldn't an anti magic field exactly help him. Of course he would be reduced to only a d4 damage but it is damage that players can't do to him. Or am I missing something?
 

DND_Reborn

Legend
I have a little question.
I know I am a bit late. But in an anti magic field, magic does not work. Be it spells or magical items. How was the weapon able to hurt Vecna if he is immune to non magical damage? Wouldn't an anti magic field exactly help him. Of course he would be reduced to only a d4 damage but it is damage that players can't do to him. Or am I missing something?
We ruled (at the time from SA we found) that the 1d8 from the Improved Divine Smite of the paladin would continue to function while in the antimagic field, so that is probably the "weapon damage" you are seeing.

Also, in the first fight he as disarmed, so could only make unarmed strikes for 3 points each...
 


We ruled (at the time from SA we found) that the 1d8 from the Improved Divine Smite of the paladin would continue to function while in the antimagic field, so that is probably the "weapon damage" you are seeing.

Also, in the first fight he as disarmed, so could only make unarmed strikes for 3 points each...
Yeah.... SA is always crappy in my books. Non magical damage is supposed to be limited to... non magical. The smite ability is pretty much magical in my book. AMF pretty much neuters all classes abilities save a few from martial classes.

The heavy reliance of magic with classes and subclasses in 5ed is probably the reason that SA ruled this way. Otherwise, too much (sub)classes would be down the drain in an AMF.

Think about it this way. Can some one do the same thing without magic explaining it? No? Then an AMF should render it non functional.

Hey, I can't have a punch smitadin because a punch is not a melee weapon attack, but a monk's punch is... SA is pretty much useless in some rulings. But you took it as is. That was your call and I respect that. Good shot on that one.
 

DND_Reborn

Legend
Yeah.... SA is always crappy in my books. Non magical damage is supposed to be limited to... non magical. The smite ability is pretty much magical in my book. AMF pretty much neuters all classes abilities save a few from martial classes.

The heavy reliance of magic with classes and subclasses in 5ed is probably the reason that SA ruled this way. Otherwise, too much (sub)classes would be down the drain in an AMF.

Think about it this way. Can some one do the same thing without magic explaining it? No? Then an AMF should render it non functional.

Hey, I can't have a punch smitadin because a punch is not a melee weapon attack, but a monk's punch is... SA is pretty much useless in some rulings. But you took it as is. That was your call and I respect that. Good shot on that one.
To be clear, Divine Smite (powered by spell slots) does not work. Improved Divine Smite, powered by "righteous might", was deemed non-magical. 🤷‍♂️

I would think the Divine Smite feature for many cleric subclasses would also work as it is "divine energy", and not necessarily magical... but I don't recall seeing any "official" ruling on it...

It also saved the PCs the hassle of spending dozens of rounds burning Vecna to destruction by torches. :D
 

To be clear, Divine Smite (powered by spell slots) does not work. Improved Divine Smite, powered by "righteous might", was deemed non-magical. 🤷‍♂️

I would think the Divine Smite feature for many cleric subclasses would also work as it is "divine energy", and not necessarily magical... but I don't recall seeing any "official" ruling on it...

It also saved the PCs the hassle of spending dozens of rounds burning Vecna to destruction by torches. :D
Divine energy not magical?

But yeah, it saved a lot of rounds. But Vecna might have got its way with the first grappler and finally escaped and healed back up and... you see where I am going to.

And again (well, first time in this thread), a spell slot Vecna with additional powers might have been scarier. A few years ago, I adapted a lich (not a Vecna) for my group of six and came up with a correction for solo monsters and that lich almost killed the entire group of 20th level. It lost, but the fight was not as one sided as the first one we had here. The loss of spell slots means that a lot of versatility is lost in the trade off. Easier to run yes, but s a lot of versatility is lost in that process.

But I digress, nice handling of the fight with the stat block. I can't wait to see a third fight.
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
I'm in, and if we want a rogue, I'll play one. Either I'll play Malek again or make another one (I haven't decided yet).

I look forward to seeing his new lair! Should be interesting!
 

DND_Reborn

Legend
Divine energy not magical?
Maybe, maybe not. I figure if someone has it, I'll ask for a collective ruling if I can't find anything more "official".

But Vecna might have got its way with the first grappler and finally escaped and healed back up and... you see where I am going to.
The Paladin was geared to be a mage-slayer, so Sentinel would have likely kept Venca in the AMF even if he escaped both grapplers.

It was a solid strategy for dealing with an enemy spellcaster.

The loss of spell slots means that a lot of versatility is lost in the trade off. Easier to run yes, but s a lot of versatility is lost in that process.
Oh, I definitely agree, spell slots give a bunch more options. With the statblock Vecna I felt sort of like a warrior just "swinging a sword" over and over again... yawn.

But I digress, nice handling of the fight with the stat block. I can't wait to see a third fight.
Thanks. I hope it will be as enjoyable (and I won't over look as much LOL!).
 



Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
As a DM, I really do not like the "ready an action to release it so I can't be countered" tactic. It feels against the intentions of the game, and grants the PC's another advantage Vecna doesn't have because he'd lose out on attacking with Afterthought.
Ready doesn't stop the spell from being countered. Vecna just has to counter the spell when the action is readied, not when released.

"When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs."
 

Stalker0

Legend
I agree, that would be cool, although I know the wizard alone could possibly defeat Vecna due to 9th level spells... 🤷‍♂️
I mean which one? Vecna will counter a number of them, and can dispel others if he needs to. I guess if you do the behind the pillar + a meteor swarm could mess him up pretty good.
 

If people want to play another battle out, I would be happy (with the holiday weekend coming up) to run it.

Here is what I propose:

  • 20th level
  • No multiclassing
  • Adding magic items: each PC gets two uncommon and one rare (and three common if you really want them...). You can exchange all your magic items for one very rare. But Vecna will have the Book of Vile Darkness with him this time.
  • I will prep a new "lair" area for Vecna as well.
  • I will replace some spell choices in the stat block with other spells, but will not grant additional spells or uses--just substitutions.
  • We will use the established rulings from the prior combats.
There might be more to come. Would anyone be interested?
Here is Lair actions if you want to use them

Lair Actions
On initiative count 20 (losing initiative ties), Vecna takes a lair action to cause one of the following effects; Vecna can’t use the same effect two rounds in a row:

Shadowplay. Vecna summons one shadow per character. Each shadow appears within 5 feet of a different character. The shadows follow Vecna’s commands (no action required) and last until he uses this lair action again or dies. A shadow acts during initiative count 20 after lair actions have been resolved.

Drain Life. Vecna casts enervation at 7th level. Vecna doesn't need to concentrate on the spell and the spell ends on initiative count 20 of the next round.

Mournful Dead. Wailing spirits swarm a 20-foot-radius sphere centered on a point in the lair that Vecna can see. Each creature in that area must succeed on a DC 18 Wisdom saving throw or take 28 (8d6) cold damage and have their movement speed reduced by 15 feet. A creature that succeeds on its saving throw takes half as much damage and doesn’t have their movement speed reduced.
 

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