D&D General wait what is arcane magic anyway?

[DEFCON 1]

I see where you're coming from, but I don't think that explains the Charisma casting stat and limited spells known shared with the non-wizards.

And one could argue that Bards that channel magic through music probably should actually use Dexterity as their casting stat, LOL.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Since the "power sources" of magic are all so wishy-washy and have no cohesive categorization... I pretty much just remove the identities of "divine", "arcane", "primal", and "psionic" altogether.

Instead, as has been mentioned above, magic (or The Weave) just suffuses the Multiverse and all manner of creatures and objects and locations can tap into in and manipulate it in various ways. Each Class just gives us a different way it can occur.

But trying to group different classes together is kinda pointless in my opinion, because the line of reasoning for the different groups doesn't hold up. The Cleric gets their access to tap into The Weave via a grant by their god. The Warlock gets their access to tap into The Weave via a grant by their patron. So were we to group classes together, these two should be in one grouping, but they aren't. One gets called Divine while the other is called Arcane.

Likewise... Sorcerers just naturally are able to tap into The Weave by who they are as creatures and can produce magical effects, which is precisely what Monks and Psions do as well. And yet Monks and Psions get their magic attributed to Psionics, and a lot of people don't even want to call what they do "magic"-- they say Psionics is something else entirely from Magic. Which might have made sense if Sorcerers being "arcane spellcasters" had any kind of important attribution or meaing. But it doesn't... Magic being "Arcane" doesn't really mean anything, so there's not a lot of reason to suggest Sorcerers and Psions are at all different or manipulate different energy.

To me, this is precisely why the whole idea of D&D having "too much magic" never meant anything to me. Because as far as I can see... D&D is a magical world and everything in it has magic-- including the so-called "non-magical classes". The way the game works... the fact that these supposedly "non-magical" classes can reach unheard-of levels of power (up in the high teens all the way to Level 20) and be able to actually harm massively magical creatures like dragons and such with supposedly "non-magical" means... or fall from great heights and not die on impact because of their "hit points" (and then in fact just standing right up and brushing themselves off via a "Second Wind") just tells me that "non-magical" doesn't really exist. To me, "Magic" is merely the D&D substitute word for our real-world "Physics". The same way our real world is defined and explained by Physics (and we couldn't be separated from that if we wanted or tried)... every D&D world is defined and explained by Magic. Which is why all the rules that make up the D&D game are not representative of any presentation of "reality", they are representative of the game worlds of D&D.

monks and psions work from what is within not that which is separate

It is the Force.

are we talking about gravity, electromagnetic or that scream galaxy binder from Star Wars?

I see where you're coming from, but I don't think that explains the Charisma casting stat and limited spells known shared with the non-wizards.

I have no idea either, are bards the point between the two?

 

[jayoungr]

And one could argue that Bards that channel magic through music probably should actually use Dexterity as their casting stat, LOL.

Not if they're singers.

 

[Bohandas]

Some combination of additional fundamental interactions (ones whose rules resemble a LLM nore closely than they do the simple equations of Newton), residue of the outer planes' top down causality, and/or dabbling in the other power sources

 

[Bohandas]

Oh, and inborn arcane power is the body producing proteins that fold into an alphabet soup of magic runes

 

[Tonguez]

I see where you're coming from, but I don't think that explains the Charisma casting stat and limited spells known shared with the non-wizards.

Intent in spellcasting would seem to indicate its a Psionic phenomena, which also fits well with so many spells needing Concentration.
Bards use music to direct and focus their emotional intent, Wizards use arcane formula, alchemist use potions, scorcerers have an increase sensitivity but still need to focus etc

 

[Mind of tempest]

Arcane Magic: a magic that is not divine in nature.

We barely escape circular logic by being able to define Divine Magic as "a magic originating from the realms of the gods", but even that is getting more and more wishy-washy as time goes...

divine is gifted magic in exchange for service to a god/gods, it is less magic and more miracles to use the Abrahamic word they taught me in school.

I consider Primal magic and Psionic magic to be the same thing. It is the power of the "soul": intention, will, visualization, experientiality.

If the Psion class is the Primal power source, or the Barbarian is the Psionic power source, I am fine with that.

Psionic and Primal tend to flavor differently. Psionic tends to be more Human, while Primal tends to be the animistic soul of a mountain or a river or an animal or a tree, but the method is the same.

The Psionic/Primal magic is the "old magic", and both Arcane and Divine require the activity of ones soul to do these other magics too.

would divine and arcane then be opposite polarities of the same thing much like you draw up psionic and primal as being reflections of each other?

And one could argue that Bards that channel magic through music probably should actually use Dexterity as their casting stat, LOL.

a bard can sing, chant, rap or use spoken word.

 

[DEFCON 1]

monks and psions work from what is within not that which is separate

Exactly. And what is within them is magic.

 

[Yaarel]

would divine and arcane then be opposite polarities of the same thing much like you draw up psionic and primal as being reflections of each other?

Yup. Both Divine and Arcane use the weave. Differently, both Psionic and Primal use ones own soul.

 

[Fifinjir]

Arcane is magic that’s a “brute fact” or “accident”, or at least can be treated as such easily enough. It doesn’t have an obvious telos, as in a purpose or goal for its existence. Wizards might get philosophical about the arcane and try to discover if there is a purpose for it, but they don’t have to do that to be able to use it.

Divine is different, it very much has a purpose and anyone using it has to keep it in mind at all times. If divine magic heals, for instance, that’s because it was meant to heal.