Wanting players to take in-game religion more seriously

[aco175]

You can bring religion into the campaign in small ways that make it more important. If the PCs come to a small town that has a temple the cleric belongs to, it would be expected that the cleric report to the church to discuss local events and messages from the central church. If he does not visit it is bad form and someone would show up to bring them in. Not bounty hunters or such, but locals in the church expecting service to the local leader. Eventually, the locals will not respond well to the party if the cleric does not act accordingly.

You can also bring churches more importance by having the party visit in need of information and not only spells. Churches may act as a library and contain holy texts that need referencing. In order to use them the cleric may need to go to a local village and perform a ceremony like a wedding or funeral. So called 'dues' must be paid to assist before the churches open up and help on their own.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Thanks, these are all good tips.

Do you think it would be fair and reasonable to have npcs act dismayed or offended by mockery towards the gods? To what extent? If a shopkeeper refused to deal with the party after hearing their jokes, would that be too heavy handed?

(And passive aggressive of me as the DM?)

Suggestion: impose consequences on the NPCs first, then have them be frightened/offended after.

If the shopkeeper's cow dies because he didn't speak up when the foreigners (PCs) failed to kiss Methuel's shrine, since he wanted their money--then maybe he and all of his fellow villagers will not be so easygoing next time.

Now the PCs have an in-character problem to deal with, which they can deal with in one of several ways: on a person-to-person basis (pay him back for the cow, avoid doing things that make him nervous in the future even if that means kissing his stupid shrine); on a religious basis (maltheism: who is this Methuel guy anyway and where does he get off, tormenting shopkeepers? or maybe they take Methuel seriously and start sacrificing things to him in hopes that he will give them loot); or on an adventuring basis (Methuel must be a BBEG; let's level up to the point where we can track him down and kill him!).

If you keep your gods' interactions primarily with the NPCs, you will have a freer hand to smite them/etc. without worrying about game balance, and you will also provide enough ambiguity about whether or not the god (e.g. Methuel) is a real thing to preserve the players' (not just the PCs') agency to take it only as seriously as they wish to.

 

[Miladoon]

I'd like my players to take their characters' in-game religions more seriously, along with that of NPCs, rather than treating the various gods like spell vending machines and clerics as no different from wizards. Any tips, that aren't too heavy handed? I've broached the subject out of character, but haven't achieved what I'm hoping for.

Basically, the characters treat any show of devotion to the gods as a joke. Obviously I'm not offended on behalf of these fake gods, I just want a different tone.

Overwhelm them with class based gifts that create the desire to MC. Level them quickly. Try to get them to have at least 3 levels and be amazing moar damage. Then block their passage to godly glory because they didn't have enough cleric levels.

 

[Sebastrd]

Whenever I start having problems like this, I first ask myself it I might be the problem. For example, are my gods worthy of respect? Sometimes I think I've come up with some amazingly cool thing, and the players are totally unimpressed.

Second, I'd simply ask the players about it. If you have younger, teenage players, I think it goes without saying that they'll be anti-authority and anti-establishment. It's what we do at that age.

Lastly, I'll echo what others have said. If there's a particular behavior you want to encourage, reward it at the table. If killing monsters is what earns XP and magic items, your players will kill every monster they run across. If devotion to the gods earns divine boons in the form of charms (DMG pg. 228), you'll likely see a lot more attention to divine matters.

 

[fjw70]

Sounds like you and the players have different views on religion in the game. Instead of punishing the PCs or trying yo impose the type of game you want to play talk yo the players and come to a compromise about the kind of game everyone wants to play.

If they agree that the gods are an active presence in the world then make sure they understand that there are consequences for defying and disrespecting them.

 

[Edwin Suijkerbuijk]

one thing to make gods a bigger infuence in your worlds for both players and NPC characters might be introducing virtues and sins.

For each god make a list of a few things this god would see as a virtue or sin.
a character can declare to be devoted to one of the gods ( but can later change at a ceremony at a temple)
When declared to a God he must avoid the sins listed by the god, but if he performs actions the god sees as virtues he might gain inspiration just like a character can from him personality traints.

 

[Jeremy E Grenemyer]

Basically, the characters treat any show of devotion to the gods as a joke. Obviously I'm not offended on behalf of these fake gods, I just want a different tone.

First off, don't spend any time or energy admonishing the players. Let 'em be how they will be.

Second, be sure to include scenes of holy days and ceremonial days during downtime (or on the road to an adventure location). Then create opportunities for the PCs to help or hinder on those days.

Generally, if the PCs are obnoxious or rude or hostile to members of an established deity, there is no reason they should not be blacklisted from receiving spells or healing--and this is easier to do if the players don't assume you're just punishing them as opposed to roleplaying a legitimate response to their actions in game.

 

[Yaarel]

Wow. If I ever had a DM who tried to force me to pretend to worship gods, I would no longer consider that person a friend.



Moreover, if a "god" is a terrorist or a bully, then it fails to merit "worship".

Quite the opposite. It is disgusting.

 

[Sunseeker]

I mean, it really depends since every god expects different types, styles and levels of devotion. Some gods are cool with a general belief in them, some gods demand fervent zealtory. I agree that most players use gods as an excuse to get the right set of spells, domains or whatever, just another stat bonus essentially.

I think it should also be made clear by your players to you if they "worship" X god, "follow" y god, or simply "agree with the teachings of" Z god.

The best way I think to go about it, would simply be to figure out what gods the players believe in, then do a little research of you own on what those gods expect of their followers (in general terms about levels of devotion and deeds) and then just track how often the players adhere to those expected levels and commit worthy deeds. From there perhaps give players "divine intervention" points (tracked by you and unknown to the players) about how willing their gods are to lend them power, insight or otherwise aid them in their quests.

One way to address this is through NPC reactions to them. The Church of Pelor might not be very inclined to aid the Paladin of Pelor if the paladin doesn't adhere to Pelor's tenants of faith. From simply things such as resupplying the party and providing them lodging, to siding with them in case they are accused to wrongdoing unjustly. I certainly agree that players mocking or disregarding well-accepted and followed tenants of any given god would also turn NPCs sour to the party being in town, raising diplomacy, investigation and other such social interaction checks, or potentially denying them entirely.

 

[Arcadian Games]

I tend to think that many players see clerics as healers and undead turners only. It seems to me that some players lack interest in what gives them the powers in the first place. I believe that they need to see their actions as a cleric would in real life. In that I mean that it is expected of them to spread the word and works of their deity, not just to take and take again. Would a god really put up with that? Would the hierarchy of the faith itself? Would they not be thrown out? When writing my latest adventure, I did research into conversion for this very reason. I formulated a system by which they reaped rewards for converting the heathen - rewards which might lead to divine intervention. It's pretty much a points based system, as is intervention but it seems to work. It also encourages them to go out specifically to convert. It is more realistic that a cleric would use his or her downtime in such a way rather than going into suspended animation when an adventure ends. Also, you could consider quests relating to the faith such as the purification of certain areas or the building or repair of a shrine to their deity. Like I said, it is the mundane parts of a religious life which seem to be missing from the minds of the players. I would require at least a recognition of this in order to improve role-play and even inter party strife. Why would a cleric not take the opportunity to try to convert a party member - after all, in their mind they are doing them a favour!