Warblade and Swordsage: Overpowered?

[Slaved]

Crusader gets 5 maneuvers at level 1, and 11 or 14 overall, at work, no books, but I think its 11 overall, it'd be easy to go with 2 maneuvers at 1, and spread the rest out more evenly.

Oddly, having the crusader get less manuevers in his readied pool would actually make his choices more reliable in combat.

As it is he starts with 2 random out of the 5 he picked. This makes planning a little tough, especially if you want to have a good variety of options.

Oh, and they get 14 overall starting at 5 and gaining a new one every odd level.

Warblade and Swordsage are similar. They need to have their frontload lessened and their staying power, ie, their level up goodies improved.

What number do you think would work better? The warblade starts off with 3 maneuvers known and 3 readied.

With 3 the warblade could have a strike, a boost, and a counter fairly easily. Or some combination of them of course but that seems like a decent course.

If they started with two instead then they would be missing one of these options automatically, if they started with one they would be refreshing the moves basically every other round assuming that they picked something that turns out useful for that slot.

If they were limited to two, as I think just one is basically out as an option, what combination do you think would work best? Two strikes? A strike and a boost? A strike and a counter? I doubt anyone would choose no strikes, but it completely depends on the build.

I wonder if their choices were reduced by 1 at each level for maneuvers how that would effect their ability to have prereqs for higher maneuvers. For the builds that were made earlier I think that they all were just barely able to have the choices that they made, it would likely narrow down the scope of long term choices a lot more than such a small change would initially indicate. Which leads into the next part about later levels being improved, what would you suggest?

As an aside it is interesting that the more often he tries to refresh them the less often he gets to use them.

The swordsage starts with 6 known and 4 readied, but I don't think anyone is really complaining about them. Medium BAB, d8 hd, 2 good saves, and a full round action to regain one maneuver. Comparing with the monk and I think it is an interesting set of tradeoffs, it would be a tough call which to play based on power levels.

 

[Victim]

The way the disciplines are structured, low level adepts are basically forced into taking disciplines they don't really want because they get more moves known then there are available in many areas. I'm not even sure that the Warblade has a Boost available at level 1.

 

[Slaved]

I'm not even sure that the Warblade has a Boost available at level 1.

I think the only one that they have access to is sudden leap.

 

[Seeten]

Crusader starts with 5 maneuvers and 5 readied, so the (2) is only a problem once they run short on maneuvers and get them redealt.

Crusader starting at 2 and going to 14 shouldnt be hard, lets make a quick chart:

1: 2
2: 3
3: 4
4: 5
5: 5
6: 6
7: 6
8: 7
9: 7
10: 8
11: 9
12: 9
13: 10
14: 10
15: 11
16: 11
17: 12
18: 12
19: 13
20: 14

As a quick example, this gets them their maneuvers in a decent clip, mostly at odd levels, doesnt have as furious an entry or dip, and spreads out fairly nicely, imo. Similar stuff is doable for Warblade/etc.

Warblade gets 3, you dont need a counter, boost and strike at level 1. Forgive me for saying, but opponents have 3-6 hp at this level. 1 Maneuver is plenty, it isnt like they cant swing their sword without a maneuver. They can gain their fancy tricks in just as large bushel loads, just not a front loading so much at first level. Thats what I'd do if i were designing them myself, or balancing them.

 

[Videssian]

Is there any way to make that NOT the case? (Like remove the non-warblade class levels from the initator levels...)

...'cause as is: you're absolutely right. And with our house rule modifications to the Ftr, it's even worse.....

Well, I think in your shoes I'd do this:

- Alter the fighter so that they (and only they) get Weapon Aptitude at level 4

- Give fighters 1 feat at each level instead at 1/2 levels (which you've already done)

- Remove non-BO9S class levels from counting as initiator levels,

- Redesign the Crusader/Swordsage/Warblade into one unified class with some significant changes. In lieu of that, I'd suggest:

- Give warblades d10 or d8 hit dice (which you've already done)

- Possibly give warblades moderate attack progression instead of good attack progression.

 

[Nail]

- Alter the fighter so that they (and only they) get Weapon Aptitude at level 4

This looks like a good Ftr bonus feat, methinks, requiring 6 levels of Ftr. That way Ftrs can take it or not, as they chose...and it's out of "dipping" range of multiclasses.

- Remove non-BO9S class levels from counting as initiator levels

Right. Next to giving Warblades d10 HD (which our campaign has already done), this seems like the easiest change.

.....In any case, I'm eager to see the Warblade thru higher levels. <raises a Coke> Here's to hoping for a long-lived melee PC, Videssian!

 

[Seeten]

Good luck, Videssian!

 

[Videssian]

Good luck, Videssian!

Heh, thanks!