Warblade maneuvers

[Arkhandus]

I have a question.

Aren't Warblades unable to use maneuvers on the round in which they take the action to recover them?

I can't remember if that's true or a bit off. If it is true, then doesn't that leave them completely open for 1 round while the Wizard, being obscenely intelligent and noticing the opening, unleashes a Time Stop, several spells following it, and some Quickened spells at the same time?

 

[hong]

They can't use maneuvers in the same round they refresh, correct. However, they can still attack (or full attack).

 

[Kmart Kommando]

A Master Transmogrifer at lvl 20 can cast Quickened Polymorph and full attack the Warblade too. I watched a Wizard/MT shrug off a Mordenkainen's Disjunction, cast Quickened Polymorph and belt out 300+ damage on a full attack. He pretty much did 75% of the damage against Kyuss in AOW, in an 8 player party.

 

[Hammerhead]

A Master Transmogrifer at lvl 20 can cast Quickened Polymorph and full attack the Warblade too. I watched a Wizard/MT shrug off a Mordenkainen's Disjunction, cast Quickened Polymorph and belt out 300+ damage on a full attack. He pretty much did 75% of the damage against Kyuss in AOW, in an 8 player party.

Point? This is something of a logical fallacy. Isn't this more of a problem with the Master Transmorgrifier than anything else?

I mean, saying that a Warblade is balanced next to a Frenzied Berserker is not exactly a ringing endorsement. (Note: I think the Warblade is balanced, and more fun to use than a vanilla fighter.)

 

[Kmart Kommando]

Point? This is something of a logical fallacy. Isn't this more of a problem with the Master Transmorgrifier than anything else?

I mean, saying that a Warblade is balanced next to a Frenzied Berserker is not exactly a ringing endorsement. (Note: I think the Warblade is balanced, and more fun to use than a vanilla fighter.)

Just saying, the wizard/warblade encounter isn't so cut and dried. There are so many variants that go against the "warblade wins 'cuz he's uber" argument.

The Warblade is fun to play, the fighter only is if you like math..and that's pretty much as far as that class goes.
And the Frenzied Berserker..is just a stupid class. It's just asking for player on player hostility, leaning very close to "whatever gives me the most plusses, even though I can't tie my own shoes".

 

[Nail]

The Warblade is fun to play.....

Most people (me, frex) agree the Warblade/Swordsage/Crusader are fun. The problem is that the Warblade and Swordsage are not balanced with respect to the core fighting classes.

In addition, I'm finding that some of the manuevers and stances are overpowered. IMG the current problem children are "Moment of Perfect Mind" and "Insightful Strike" manuevers. Our Mnk 2/WB 5 has maxed out his concentration skill (he now has a +22 on the check), and so always makes Will saves and can routinely do 35 hp of damage as a Std Action strike.

(For example: Say the martial adept walk into an illusion-cloaked room with the party...there's virtually no chance the martial adept will fail an out-of-combat Will save. Illusionary puzzles and tricks? Don't bother, Mr. DM sir! )

All that said: It's still a fun class to see in action! As a DM, I've had to make adjustments, but I can handle it. I just wish the manuevers had been more fully playtested, preferably by a bunch of powergamers, to find the holes. (hong, I'm lookin' at you! )

 

[Nail]

Just saying, the wizard/warblade encounter isn't so cut and dried. There are so many variants that go against the "warblade wins 'cuz he's uber" argument.

Every new supplement should be balanced with respect to the Core Material.

The fact that some supplemental material is broken does not mean that all supplemental material must be broken.

 

[hong]

Most people (me, frex) agree the Warblade/Swordsage/Crusader are fun. The problem is that the Warblade and Swordsage are not balanced with respect to the core fighting classes.

The problem is that some people keep harping on about the core fighting classes as some sort of revelation, as inscribed on stone tablets, about how the game is to be handled forever more.

In addition, I'm finding that some of the manuevers and stances are overpowered. IMG the current problem children are "Moment of Perfect Mind" and "Insightful Strike" manuevers. Our Mnk 2/WB 5 has maxed out his concentration skill (he now has a +22 on the check), and so always makes Will saves and can routinely do 35 hp of damage as a Std Action strike.

... once. If a 7th level barbarian can't do 35 points of damage on a full attack, he's not trying hard enough.

(For example: Say the martial adept walk into an illusion-cloaked room with the party...there's virtually no chance the martial adept will fail an out-of-combat Will save. Illusionary puzzles and tricks? Don't bother, Mr. DM sir! )

"Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognise it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion."

And so what if the warblade manages to detect the illusion once he tries to save? If the party has got to the stage where they're actively looking for illusions, someone is eventually going to spot it. If it wasn't the warblade, it'll be the cleric. Not to mention that I can count the times where I've encountered rooms full of illusions on the fingers of one hand.

 

[hong]

Every new supplement should be balanced with respect to the Core Material.

Every new supplement should be balanced with respect to the core material as a whole, not isolated segments of it.

The fact that some supplemental material is broken does not mean that all supplemental material must be broken.

The fact that some core classes got teh shaft does not mean that all supplemental classes must continue to get teh shaft.

 

[Nail]

"Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognise it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion."

And so what if the warblade manages to detect the illusion once he tries to save? If the party has got to the stage where they're actively looking for illusions, someone is eventually going to spot it. If it wasn't the warblade, it'll be the cleric. Not to mention that I can count the times where I've encountered rooms full of illusions on the fingers of one hand.

Let's say that some PCs open a trap door in the ceiling of the room they are in, and look through it to see a city outside. They crawl through, and find themselves standing on a pillar in the middle of a city. (The city is an illusion, but the pillar is not.) How would you handle this as the DM? When would the Warblade get to automatically make his save?

Now let's pretend a dragon (real) is hovering behind one of the illusionary towers of the city, about 100 feet away. Now when does the Warblade get to automatically make his save? Keep in mind combat has not started.