Warblade maneuvers

[Nail]

... This is the group with no ACs above 17, right?

True!

It's a lesson they seem bent on not learning. <shrug> Topic for a different thread, I think.

[EDIT-Clarify]The low AC on the Warblade has little to do with the class or it's abilities. IOW, optimizing Concentration didn't lead to his low AC.

 

[hong]

True!

It's a lesson they seem bent on not learning. <shrug> Topic for a different thread, I think.

... so, they are adept at minmaxing, except when they fail to minmax?

 

[Nail]

... so, they are adept at minmaxing, except when they fail to minmax?

The WB player is great at min-maxing. And he's still ignoring his AC. We've discussed it, we've seen it in play for quite a while now, and he stands by his choices. I don't agree with his reasoning, but that's not particularly important.

 

[hong]

The WB player is great at min-maxing. And he's still ignoring his AC. We've discussed it, we've seen it in play for quite a while now, and he stands by his choices.

Consider the possibility that your players are just better at minmaxing than you, and stop trying to beat them at their own game.

Consider that moment of perfect mind worked... PERFECTLY in stopping an instakill spell in the first round, thus contributing to the fun of the entire group.

Consider that moment of perfect mind FAILED in stopping an instakill spell in the second round, thus demonstrating that while powerful, it's not unlimited.

Consider stopping your incessant whinging.

 

[Nail]

Consider stopping your incessant whinging.

Hmmmmmm......allow me to consider your elegantly worded proposal.......how does one stop "whinging"?.........

 

[Nail]

Consider that moment of perfect mind worked... PERFECTLY in stopping an instakill spell in the first round, thus contributing to the fun of the entire group.

Consider that moment of perfect mind FAILED in stopping an instakill spell in the second round, thus demonstrating that while powerful, it's not unlimited.

Good points, esp. about the "fun of the entire group". That's the reason I allowed the Warblade class in the first place.

 

[hong]

Hmmmmmm......allow me to consider your elegantly worded proposal.......how does one stop "whinging"?.........

Very easily.

 

[Arkhandus]

True. This turns out to be a difficult thing to judge when we're not talking about a specific PC within a specific game. IMG, the warblade would use this manuever quite a bit...in other games, he might be hit with a Will save once every 4 gaming sessions. The balancing issues (within a specific game) that the martial adepts bring are pretty large.

Nothing like the core classes.

I'm confused. Isn't this the same basic thing as a Sorcerer who has a very limited selection of spells known, but can use them a lot and can potentially do damn near anything so long as he chooses the right spells to learn?

Sorcerers can learn Wish, after all. They can learn to blow stuff up, teleport all over, planewalk, generate illusions, deceive others into becoming their very bestest friends ever, command others to do the sorcerer's bidding immediately, animate the dead, render large groups of people dead with a single word, put people to sleep, hypnotize enemies, make critters grow to immense size, shrink someone down to diminutive proportions, teleport an object right to his hand, dispel a magical effect in place, erect illusory barriers, send people running away in terror, spontaneously create massive walls of iron, catch a group of enemies in sticky webbing, stop time itself, encase an enemy in a solid globe of force and send them hurtling through walls like a projectile, reshape stone by touch, conjure up legions of extraplanar minions........and so on and so forth.

I fail to see how martial adepts require more balance consideration than spellcasters who can bend reality to their will in any number of ways. A sorcerer's choice of spells is HUGE in determining what they'll be able to do, how they'll contribute, when they'll be able to contribute, how often, and how significantly.

Elaborate if you will, as I don't see how martial adepts carry with them this huge balance problem or excessive requirement of special consideration compared to core classes. I'm pretty sure that any min-maxed Warblade or the like could be neutralized by a core class using core material, or, if using more than just core + Bo9S for the Warblade, then neutralized by a core class using the same amount of non-core material. And of course, any character can take martial maneuvers and stances if they spend one or more feats on it.

 

[Nail]

Sorcerers can learn Wish, after all.

....at 17th level.

Warblades can start ignoring Will saves (or whatever other manuever we're talking about) at 1st.

IMC, bad guys change tactics if the tactics they are presently using fail. If a bad guy throws a Will save spell, and the Warblade easily counters it, the bad guy will use some other tactic instead.

Now if, for example, the bad guys know its a Warblade, and know the counter was Moment of Perfect Mind, then that changes the tactics pretty dramatically; hit the WB with a low level Will save spell in round 1, then in round 2 (if yer still alive) hit the WB with the real Will save spell.

 

[hong]

Now if, for example, the bad guys know its a Warblade, and know the counter was Moment of Perfect Mind, then that changes the tactics pretty dramatically; hit the WB with a low level Will save spell in round 1, then in round 2 (if yer still alive) hit the WB with the real Will save spell.

Exactly.