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Warforged and the Monk - doable?

Enkhidu

Explorer
OK, with our 4 year campaign getting ready for wrap up over the next few months, I'm looking at all sorts of characters, some more run of the mill than others. But this latest idea isn't (for me) old hat, and I'd like to get some opinions about how some of the abilites jive.

First off, some questions about rules clarifications:

1. Warforged have an automatic armor bonus - does this affect the monk abilites of flurry/AC/movement? What about the feats Mithral or Adamantine Body?

2. How do the Tracery feats stack up with the monk's unarmed attacks?

3. Is it safe to assume that the Monk's self healing works at full power (as opposed to half power like curing spells)?

4. Is there anything else I am missing (synergies between the two)?


Thanks in advance!
 

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ForceUser

Explorer
Warforged and monks are terribly non-synergystic. Just as the warforged's armored skin impedes spellcasting, so does it impedes any monk ability reliant upon being unarmored. That's not to say that warforged would be terrible monks, just that they would be different. As a warforged monk, I might take the UA variant that trades away movement for DR, and I would certainly focus on getting that "one good hit" as opposed to multiple attacks. Two ways to take the warforged monk that would work: the "Stunning Fist Guy" and the "Grappler."

The Stunning Fist Guy has a high Str and Wis and takes feats such as Ability Focus (stunning fist), Extra Stunning, Pain Touch, and Falling Star Strike. He's all about disabling opponents rather than hurting them. He's a fine partner in a group that already has damage output from other classes such as the fighter and the wizard, and he makes a fantastic duo with a rogue.

The Grappler is all about choking people into unconsciousness. I won't go into this one because everyone's well familiar with this monk feat path. I think that a warforged monk would be quite good at this. He might also consider taking this archetype as a fighter with an eye on the reaping mauler PrC.

With either of those monk archtypes, a warforged monk would benefit greatly from taking one level in fighter and simply wearing armor (or taking Adamantine Body as a feat). You're already severely penalized for your armored skin, so why not make it the best armor it can be?

I've given this race/class combo a lot of thought. :)
 

Laman Stahros

First Post
Races of Eberron has a warforged feat called Unarmored Body that might solve the problems with going monk. Takes away the armor bonus and fortification and armor check penalty.
 

Scion

First Post
If I remember correctly some part of the warforged description specifically calls out that his normal body does not interfere with monks abilities..although I could be mistaken ;)
 

1.

ForceUser said:
Warforged and monks are terribly non-synergystic. Just as the warforged's armored skin impedes spellcasting, so does it impedes any monk ability reliant upon being unarmored.

No, it doesn't.

The monk abilities go away when you are wearing armor. Warforged composite plating is not armor. It provides an Armor Bonus to AC and has an ASF, it even takes up the armor / robe slot, but it is not armor for purposes of class abilities.

Warforged who take the Adamantine or Mithril Body feats, however, *do* count as wearing armor for purposes of class abilities.

2. I'd need the rules text on the Tracery abilities before I could answer questions about them.

3. Yes. Warforged only heal from Conjuration (Healing) effects that heal hit point damage. The monk's wholeness of body ability is not a Conjuration (Healing) effect.

4. You can freely mix natural attacks with unarmed strikes while making a full attack action, so long as you aren't using Flurry of Blows. Your slam attack may provide you with an additional attack from time to time. Other than that, provide more info on what you want to do, and we'll see. :)
 

Enkhidu

Explorer
Hmmm. So Adamantine/Mithral Body is the wrench in the works.

I vaguely recall the 3.0 Sacred Fist getting many of the monkish abilities while in light armor - did that carry over to 3.5?
 


reveal

Adventurer
Patryn of Elvenshae said:
3. Yes. Warforged only heal from Conjuration (Healing) effects that heal hit point damage. The monk's wholeness of body ability is not a Conjuration (Healing) effect.

This is the only point I don't agree with. The monk would only gain half HP from the ability.

Races of Eberron said:
However, spells from the healing subschool and supernatural abilities that cure hit point damage or ability damage provide only half their normal effects to a warforged.

Wholeness of Body is a supernatural effect that cures hit point damage.
 

Anti-Sean

First Post
Patryn of Elvenshae said:
3. Yes. Warforged only heal from Conjuration (Healing) effects that heal hit point damage. The monk's wholeness of body ability is not a Conjuration (Healing) effect.


reveal said:
Races of Eberron said:
However, spells from the healing subschool and supernatural abilities that cure hit point damage or ability damage provide only half their normal effects to a warforged.


Wholeness of Body is a supernatural effect that cures hit point damage.

According to page 38 of the ECS, a warforged monk can use Wholeness of Body "to repair damage he has taken." The warforged racial description on page 23 of the ECS is identical to what reveal quoted above. Now, the nitpicking lies between the usage of 'cure' in the racial description and 'repair' in the class description. I'll leave that one up to folks who are more well versed in parsing rules than myself.

Also, warforged monks are awesome, especially when combined with druid levels, as per one of the main characters in the story in my .sig. *cough cough ahem* :)
 

Klaus

First Post
Warforged monks are very nice.

1 - The character benefits normally from his composite plating (+2 AC, no check penalty, light fortification). If he has Adamantine/Mithral Body, they are considered to be wearig armor (as per feat desctiptions) and thus lose most of their monk abilities.

2 - Just as you'd expect: your unarmed strikes bypass silver/cold iron DR.

3 - Yes, it works at full power, as noted in the Monk description in the Eberron Campaign Setting.

4 - Flurry of blows + secondary natural attack = awesome! Flurry of Blows while unarmed at the regular FoB penalty (-2/-1/-0, as the levels progress) and an extra slam at -5.

4 - Warforged monk + Battlefist = damage as one size larger, which is also slashing damage (Battlefist description in the ECS).

4 - Warforged monk can have his composite plating enchanted, so you can have a WF monk with a +1 shadow silent moves invulnerability plating or whatever.

4 - Purity of Body and Diamond Body (immunity to disease and poison) are redundant for WF monks. I'd take a page from the WF Paladin substitution level that exchanges Immunity to Disease for Immunity to Stunning.
 

reveal

Adventurer
Anti-Sean said:
According to page 38 of the ECS, a warforged monk can use Wholeness of Body "to repair damage he has taken." The warforged racial description on page 23 of the ECS is identical to what reveal quoted above. Now, the nitpicking lies between the usage of 'cure' in the racial description and 'repair' in the class description. I'll leave that one up to folks who are more well versed in parsing rules than myself.

Also, warforged monks are awesome, especially when combined with druid levels, as per one of the main characters in the story in my .sig. *cough cough ahem* :)

Ya, I think by placing the word "repair" they imply that the warforged can heal his own wounds fully.
 

Klaus said:
4 - Flurry of blows + secondary natural attack = awesome! Flurry of Blows while unarmed at the regular FoB penalty (-2/-1/-0, as the levels progress) and an extra slam at -5.

No, Flurry of Blows + Seconday Natural Attack = Doesn't Work.

You can only use a natural weapon as part of a full attack when you don't flurry, because using flurry limits you to unarmed strikes and special monk weapons. A slam is not a special monk weapon.
 

reveal

Adventurer
Patryn of Elvenshae said:
No, Flurry of Blows + Seconday Natural Attack = Doesn't Work.

You can only use a natural weapon as part of a full attack when you don't flurry, because using flurry limits you to unarmed strikes and special monk weapons. A slam is not a special monk weapon.

Keith Baker pretty much said the same thing.
 

reveal said:
This is the only point I don't agree with. The monk would only gain half HP from the ability.

I believe that the language in the Races of Eberron book contradicts that which is found in the ECS.

Anyone have the limitation on Warforged healing from the ECS on hand?
 


reveal

Adventurer
Patryn of Elvenshae said:
I believe that the language in the Races of Eberron book contradicts that which is found in the ECS.

Anyone have the limitation on Warforged healing from the ECS on hand?

It's already been pointed out that the Monk description in the ECS specifies the warforged monk can repair itself with Wholeness of Body. Since it uses the word "repair" I assume they mean that the warforged monk gets the full benefit of the ability.
 




ARandomGod

First Post
Doable? Not only doable, but arguably the best race for a monk in the game.

A WF Monk gets full healing from Laying on of Hands. It specifically says so.
The "normal" armor of the WF doesn't interfere in any way. It specifically says so.

(Adamantine or Mithril body, on the other hand, do interfere).

The Battlefist. ... A weapon that can be used with flurry and grants enhancement to natural attacks at the cost of weapon enhancements, PLUS it grants you a virtual Improved Natural Attack feat! It also adds slashing to your damage.

There is some debate as to whether you can "intermix" flurry and nat attacks... Flurry gets badmouthed a lot, but it's functionally similiar to TWF< and IMO should be treated the same (although in certain circumstances it can stack... like a circumstance where you have a weapon, can you say Battlefist?) And you should be able to get your natural attack after your BAB based attacks, as given in the rules for intermixing the two (nat attack(s) cound as secondary weapons, -5 to hit and .05X str to damage).

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
No, Flurry of Blows + Seconday Natural Attack = Doesn't Work.

You can only use a natural weapon as part of a full attack when you don't flurry, because using flurry limits you to unarmed strikes and special monk weapons. A slam is not a special monk weapon.

There's the counterarguement to my interpretation, I use the same language to say that you indeed can only flurry with your unarmed strikes and special monk weapons, and you can add in TWF with non-unarmed strikes as given in the rules, and you can add on natural attacks as well, using the rules given for doing so (rules that do not meantion flurry, of course).

Anyhow, that particular interaction is debated (and not just by me, ~_^ ) But as for the rest, WF is one of the best races for Monk hands down! Get that battlefist specailly made out of adamantine, and those tracery feats, and you'll be attacking with a silver, cold iron, adamantine, magic, bludgeoning and slashing weapon!
 

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